sam919
|
| posted on 29/7/16 at 01:54 PM |
|
|
Engine and Box Options Caterham
Good Day!
I have another Caterham chassis that needs an engine and box, im looking for sub 200hp, 150-60-70, dry or shallow sump mated to an appropriate
gearbox. The back end is de-dion and 7" with a choice of CWP sets, a 5 speed with a 0.89 ish final ration would be prefferable or if going 6
speed a 1.00 as i have a 3.62 also.
Its a pure track car hence the sump and ive another project on the go so its got a low budget, re-sale as well to consider so a k-series
wouldn't be sniffed at but appreciate more contemporary lumps like zetec etc.
I'm not upto speed these days so suggestions or thoughts, bike engine out as well........
Regards
|
|
|
|
|
mackei23b
|
| posted on 29/7/16 at 02:07 PM |
|
|
If resale is a consideration, close to a factory spec car is the way to go.....
I may have a complete ford sigma engine (140hp) for sale with all the Caterham parts, inc, lightened flywheel,clutch, bellhousing, engine mounts, full
exhaust etc for sale shortly.... i.e. everything to install the Sigma onto a type9 gearbox if that is of interest?
Would be looking for crica £2K for the complete package.
Cheers
Ian
|
|
|
sam919
|
| posted on 29/7/16 at 02:21 PM |
|
|
Agreed, you never want to sell but if you do....... caterham owners/ buyers are a funny bunch with spec!! :-)
That sound tempting, what is the sump arrangement, again not up to speed on the current engine specs, when i was racing HWR built the duratec i was
using and also done a lot of work to a freinds sigma which was taken to 200hp but this was dry sumped.
Would this mate to a mx5 5 speed?
|
|
|
mackei23b
|
| posted on 29/7/16 at 02:44 PM |
|
|
Hi There
It would have the standard Caterham wet sump, Caterham supersport cams and uprated valve caps and I think valve springs (It is a sealed Caterham
Motorsport engine from Sigmax / Supersport spec car). With this spec add throttle bodies and it will get circa 150hp.
The next stage is arround 175hp with headwork, probably different cams again......and then get the checkbook out for 200hp....
Not sure about the fitting to an MX5 gearbox, I know Caterham use a revised casting for thier mazda gearboxes, but that may be to keep them upright
rather than run them at a 10 degree angle....more research required....but I suspect not.
Cheers
Ian
|
|
|
Ugg10
|
| posted on 29/7/16 at 03:23 PM |
|
|
On the 1600 sigma the shawspeed ss4 cams are a favourite and Piper do a number of fast road and race cams. Lightning Motorsport also of a range of
cams.
Freddy686868 on Turbosport and ebay does an adaptor for the Sigma to take the RX8 6 speed box (same as Mk3 MX5, IS200, 200SX and BRZ/GT86) I will be
fitting one of these to my 1.7 puma sigma in the next couple of weeks. RX8 box is the one to go for as it has the same spine as ford so you can use
the oem clutch plates (215mm pinto, sigma is a different spline pattern so not that one). First gear is pretty short (3.76) but after that it is
basically a helical Quaife close ratio 2.269, 1.645, 1.187, 1.000, 0.843. This is a similar size to the Type 9 but will need to be measured up to see
if it will fit in the chassis. if you need to keep the type 9 then SPC do a long 1st semi helical kit for the type 9 that would suit this application.
http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=886393&page=2
May be worth putting in the Shawspeed HD rod bolts whilst you have the engine out, this, with the HD valve springs allows it to rev to 8.5k.
If Mackie can't sort you out I will have a sigma ally bell housing and standard 2.0l Type 9 available in a couple of weeks with cable operated
clutch arm an release bearing (new).
Finally, if you are on a budget chester sports cars do a bike carb kit for this engine that makes 143hp on a stock engine/cam think this comes in at
£1k for the carbs rejetted to your engine spec, manifold and ecu (nodiz). I had one of their kits on a 2.0l Zetec and it was very good.
If the sigma is not to your liking then the big brother 2.0/2.3/2.5 duratec is and alternative as this is found in current caterhams as well to keep
it stock-ish. Loads of info on this out there if you search but 170hp+ is available for from a stock engine with TBs AFAIK.
[Edited on 29/7/16 by Ugg10]
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
|
|
|
sam919
|
| posted on 29/7/16 at 04:17 PM |
|
|
Thanks for the info , very interesting. I have been reading in dribs and drabs about alternative boxes and the RX8 comes up quite a bit.
I suppose, and im not knocking the offers and engine, but what are the negatives in a 160 VVC for a bit less cash, but more hp over the sigma? It
would still need sump baffles etc but in keeping with an R300.
Is their any advantage to the sigma ?
|
|
|
Ugg10
|
| posted on 29/7/16 at 05:40 PM |
|
|
1.8 k series vvc would be more comparable to the 1.7 puma engine with vct.
Sigma is slightly lighter, but not by much. Must admit, unless you are going down the rx8 route there is not really much difference, both will need a
bell housing for the type 9, k series would be better on the OEM ecu if you can get that to work, if going emerald/omex/ms then there is not a lot in
it.
Good point made.
The other option would be the Vauxhall xe which was used in the caterham hpe.
[Edited on 29/7/16 by Ugg10]
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
|
|
|
mackei23b
|
| posted on 29/7/16 at 07:51 PM |
|
|
Just watch the space for an rx8 box as there is not mutch room down the tunnel, but that is not to say it can't be done.
VVC is a good option for a Cateham and may be a cheaper option.....Sigma brings it to a more modern spec....
I've done a couple of Caterham's and looking at my third, hence the potential engine sale for a Duratec, budgeting around 5-6k for the
conversion.....
Think about what you want from the car and do the budget for each option to help the decision.
Hope this helps
Cheers
ian
|
|
|
sam919
|
| posted on 29/7/16 at 09:04 PM |
|
|
Yes that's good advice.
The chassis is a superlight with a full cage and 2004 so this would be the age 'ish' of the R300.
Your right an upgrade to the sigma would be a good shout. The cars going to be tracked and potentially used as an instruction car/ hired out at track
days to go over handling characteristics.
The duratec could be an option, but i probably dont have the spare ££'s to do anything of that guise. I used to use the duratec for racing a few
years back in the 300hp+ range, but reliability wasnt great so when we re-built the engine 270hp was settled on and its been great since, its now in a
freinds race caterham. Also the type 9 even with SP internals wasnt all that fantastic. ......with 270 its fine.
Having not been involved in car engine conversions for a couple years, as mentioned new ideas like the MX5 and RX8 box seemed to be gathering
momentum, its interesting to see what people have been upto and experimenting with.
Ill have a bit of time over the next couple days to go over the info you've all given, thanks again.
Budget , a couple of grand all in....ish :-)
* the XE is a good option also, weight isn't a great issue here and they're a cracking engine.
|
|
|
cr500dom
|
| posted on 19/8/16 at 03:01 PM |
|
|
Aisin AZ6 wont go in the caterham tunnel.
That's why I have an IS200 one sat in the barn which came from CTI when they were investigating it for future caterhams.
I am still tempted to see if the RX8 I have will fit over winter, as mine is a metric chassis which has an MT75 squeezed in at the moment behind a
blacktop Zetec.
So my tunnel may have slightly more room already.
Id take Mackies offer of the sigma install complete if I were you.
Anything else is going to cost you that to fit in one form or another.
Zetec on TBs is a good reliable powerplant, but raceline sumps and alternator mounts to fit the caterham, as well as exhausts etc will still get to
you a similar figure cost wise.
Sigma will see 165-170 on TBs and cams without opening it up, 200 means head work, HC pistons and steel rods etc
|
|
|
.jpg){kind=avatar}
