| posted on 26/2/18 at 11:33 AM||
|Zetec and Euro5|
In your experience, can a Zetec (1.6 or 2.0) pass euiro5 emission tests?
I have a Haynes roadster with a 2.0i DOHC from 1992 (Sierra)+cat converter, built in Sweden. Now I'm back in France, but here, unlike in the UK
or in Sweden, the emissions have to comply with the year the car has been registered for the first, not the engine year. In my case, it is 2014, so to
have it registered in France now, I need to pass Euro5 emission tests. I doubt my 1992 engine will .
I'd love to change for a modern 1.6 or 2.0 Ecoboost, but prices are still prohibitive. So, if I could get away with a Zetec, that would be great
as there are still plenty of them and they are cheap.
What to you think?
| posted on 26/2/18 at 03:51 PM||
|What about a Durayec Sylvain?|
| posted on 26/2/18 at 04:07 PM||
|I'd love a Duratec, and I know I could fond one from 2014 and onward. |
But first, they are pricey, and second, I'm not sure about the exhaust side. I know the Zetec has the exhaust on the left side. But I'm a
bit confused when it comes to the Duratec: I can see pictures of Duratec with either left or right exhaust ???
I need a left hand exhaust, because my left hand side panel already has the hole for the exhaust, and brackets which support my exhaust muffler are
welded on the left side of my chassis.
Are there Duratec with left hand exhaust?
| posted on 26/2/18 at 04:21 PM||
|the ST170 engine is a zetec, but labelled as a Duratec, so has left hand exhaust. |
All the other Duratec's are right hand pipes.
| posted on 26/2/18 at 04:40 PM||
|Thanks for the info. |
But could you or anyone else tell me if the the ST170:
- was still produced in 2011 (beginning of Euro5 regulation),
- would it comply with Euro5 emissions regulations of from before 2011,
- in which (donor) car can I find it?
Thanks a lot.
| posted on 26/2/18 at 04:46 PM||
|ST170 stopped production in 2004.|
| posted on 26/2/18 at 07:54 PM||
|Why not get an emissions test done before leaping into engine swaps?|
| posted on 26/2/18 at 10:28 PM||
The figures you are looking at are for homologated production cars and apply to the vehicle as a whole system (engine,drivetrain,weight and
aerodynamics all play a part in those figures).
They don't apply to low volume and single vehicle approved cars, as far as I know it defaults back to the old system of up to 16hp / above 16hp
when registered in France.
The Control Technique at present applies the same limits as the uk MOT, for a 2014 car this is: Fast Idle; HC 200ppm CO 0.2% Lambda 0.97-1.03 Normal
idle CO 0.3%.
Your engine should be capable of passing this with everything in good condition, you could get a garage to check this for you.
As far a registration goes, if you have a Swedish approval it will be a starting point(but they may want to test anything that was not tested to the
same standards as France), if it was classed as exempt in Sweden then you will need to pass an "Reception a titre isole"/RTI from scratch
for current regulations which may require things that are not present on your vehicle like abs, stability control etc.
Depending upon prefecture this will be anywhere from difficult to impossible, depending upon how they interpret the rules.
Have a lookthrough this site, there appears to be useful info for getting a car registered, also there may be someone who has already done what you
intend to do.
| posted on 27/2/18 at 10:32 AM||
Originally posted by voucht
But could you or anyone else tell me if the the ST170:
- in which (donor) car can I find it?
It was only ever in the Focus ST170 - 2002 - 2004 (AKA: SVT Focus in the USA)
As above the ST170 engine says duratec on it - but its really only a 'Zetec E' (aka: Zeta engine) with variable cam timing and a few
'Real' Duratec engines (known as 'Duratec HE' ) are derived from the Mazda MZR engines - these are the 1.8 & 2.0 ones
found in lots of donors including the mk3&4 Mondeo (2000-20014), Mk2 Focus (2004-2011) and the Fiesta ST150 (2002-2008)
When people on this site talk about a Duratec engine this is the one they mean.
These are quite cheap and easy to find these days
That doesn't mean you should forget the 'Zetec SE' engines (aka: Sigma engines) - these are the old 1.25, 1.4, 1.6 & 1.7
Zetec's that some of which were tweaked and re-branded as Duratec's, then as 'Duratec Ti-VCT' and with even more tweaks are
even the basis of the 1.6 ecoboost
[Edited on 27/2/2018 by mcerd1]
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| posted on 27/2/18 at 04:28 PM||
|@ Whippy |
You are totally right, and that is the plan. But as I said, I doubt my 2.0i DOHC from 1992 will show emission level as low as required by Euro 5, so I
anticipate. But I'm going to do that this week if weather allows me to do so.
Thank you for the input! You seem to be very well informed about the inspection and certification process in France, very impressive !
I came back to France 1-1/2 year ago with my Roadster, and I have been driving it here with the Swedish number plate so far. The problem is, to keep
it registered in Sweden, I need to go through an MOT there. And there is no way I can go back to Sweden just for an MOT. So my car will be soon
unregistered from Sweden, and I won't be allowed to drive it anywhere.
So have been trying to have my car registered in France since last September. The goal was to try to have it registered without having to go through
more inspections, as I already did everything in Sweden. So I know pretty well the process I need to go through to have my car approved registered
here, and it is not as simple. I'm talking about 6 months of writing back and forth with the authorities here, and dozen of emails.
Unfortunately, French authorities can register a foreign vehicle in France only if the owner can provide a "European certificate of
conformity" from a well known manufacturer (Peugeot, Renault, Ford, Volvo, etc.) If the owner can't, and even if the car has already been
inspected, approved and registered in a EU country, he has to prove that the car has been approved by the foreign authorities according to the EU
In my case, I can't prove that, because amateur built cars in Sweden are inspected and approved according to local Swedish regulations, and not
according to the full EU directive 2007/46/CE.
So you are right: to have my car registered in France, I have to go through an RTI ("Reception a titre isole". Not the full one, because,
as you say, the fact that it has already been approved in Sweden is a starting point, and they don't ask me to go through the full process, like
they would have for a newly built car. But I will need to go through a series of tests, 5 to be precise: braking system, lateral and back vision,
electromagnetic compatibility, noise emissions, and pollution emissions.
Unfortunately, this emission tests for an RTI (car approval inspection) is not the same as "control technique" ones (which is basically
your MOT, that you take periodically for cars that are already approved and registered). And it won't be as easy as just complying with the
emission level you are talking about. They will test the 6 polluting agents I listed in my first post, and the result will have to comply with Euro5
levels. I have an email from the French authorities that specifically says that.
Hence the reason I'm wondering if my 1992 engine will pass these Euro5 tests, and perhaps, to put all chances on my side, swap engines for a
more modern and less polluting one before going through the test.
Now, to fully understand why I can't mess it up, you also need to know that, unlike the UK or Sweden, French authorities do everything they can
to discourage people to build their own car. They make the inspection approval process very expensive, and complicated. For example, there is only one
centre in France where you can take the approval tests. One for the all country! And it is in the suburb of Paris (on the old racing track of
Montlhery), about 700km from where I live! So better be sure I pass the first time!
Anyway, thank you for having taken the time to give me all these explanations.
Thank you for these very useful infos! I'll think about all these options. And if I have to go for a RH exhaust (Duratec or Ecoboost), it is not
such a big deal. At least I will have room for the exhaust manifold, and why not, a turbo, which is impossible for me now with a LH exhaust, because
there, unlike you guys, I have my steering column and pedal box!
| posted on 27/2/18 at 06:15 PM||
Euro 5 is quite a steep hill to climb.
The main hurdle for the duratec will be the PM, lacking a direct injection system I can't see 0.005g/km being done.
You could try adding a DPF filter from a diesel car. But this is complex because of regeneration cycles normally done by software.
Then strict NOx AND HC emissions will mean that you'll have to run the car rich to avoid NOX (nox is produced under lean mixture high temp
conditions) but then you need air injection into the exhaust for the catalytic converter to work.
And of course a system that measures and controls it all...
You could try your luck at the RDW or TUV.
since both entities deliver ECOC's
| posted on 28/2/18 at 01:17 AM||
With a full homologation requirement for emissions, the sierra engine is not likely to pass the NOx element of the test, and it was never tested when
the sierra was homologated for a reference value.
The particulate limit only applies to direct injection engines, port injection engines are not tested for particulates under euro 5/6. Hopefully they
will acknowledge this when testing your vehicle.
For comparison to your required limits, I have had a quick look through the v5's i have at home, the only petrol one that has stated limits is
a 2001 ford focus 1.6 (zetec se engine) as follows;
CO 0.518 g/km
HC 0.115 g/km
NOx 0.059 g/km
From these values, the HC is the only figure that is over, the but NOx is also borderline.
Pulling round a 500kg car, the figures are likely to drop down for the lower weight, but creep back up for the aero resistance and the gearing if
shorter than the focus.
A newer car with the same engine is likely to have lower given limits, but the only thing to note is there is an amount of cheating by the
manufacturers for these tests such as taping door gaps, overinflating tyres, shutting off consumer functions (lights/hvac etc). This means the
improvement may not be as large as you may think.
These figures are tricky to obtain without registration documents or COC's but are the only means you have to see if an engine is potentially
Any replacement engine would have to be used as originally installed to achieve the homologated values.
I was under the impression that some prefectures were easier to get through with a kit car, but i think you need to know someone for this to be
| posted on 28/2/18 at 09:10 AM||
|That is weird that a DI engine is not tested for PM ? |
Another thingy, if they are doing a full EU test. than 'standing' emissions are tested too no ?
(letting the car sit for hours and check HC emission from fumes).
| posted on 28/2/18 at 11:46 PM||
|I've had a look at work at the emissions values on a 2013 1.8 MX-5 with an L8 code engine (mazda duratec engine) and they are as follows: |
CO 0.213 g/km
HC 0.034 g/km
NOx 0.014 g/km
That looks a far more viable option, and is in a rwd configuration so shouldn't be too complicated to use the standard manifolds and ecu.
The engine will be a fairly expensive option and you could use a mazda 5 or 6 speed gearbox (they're not that expensive but you'd need a
propshaft to match) and be at a similar power level to your existing engine (93kw).
You could use the mx5 manifolds and ecu on a 1.8 duratec or L8 mzr engine (from a number of fwd mazdas) to reduce the cost, but sump mods (and
possibly others) will be required.
Thinking on other possibilities, are you limited to keeping the homologated engine once you have a carte gris, or is an engine change possible without
repeating the rti process ?
A 1.3 rocam from a Ka (2002-8) would fit to your existing gearbox (a spigot bearing and clutch drive plate would be needed) , should have sufficiently
low emissions to pass the required emission levels, and a whole car with expired ct could be bought for scrap value (i assume they rust there as badly
as they do here) leaving you with everything needed to get your roadster through the test.
Once through the test and registered you could swap back, and with a decent catalyst the sierra engine would pass the standard ct limits.
It's not quite playing by the rules, but would make things cheaper for you if it's viable.
BTW I have now found a site that has the homologation emission values for most vehicles which will prove useful for your research.