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Author: Subject: More battery problems!
chrisbmxr

posted on 18/7/18 at 06:36 PM Reply With Quote
More battery problems!

So, after fitting a brand new battery in my MK Indy two weeks ago, I noticed today that it had leaked acid everywhere! Luckily the acid was only in the area immediately around the battery but it's clearly been there a few days as the metal fixings nearby have oxidized and gone white and crusty.

Is this a dud battery?

Is there a problem with my cars charging circuit? How can I test it?

Are Gel batteries any better?

I'm currently trying to clean all the acid away with baking soda and water!

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theconrodkid

posted on 18/7/18 at 06:40 PM Reply With Quote
most batteries these days are sealed, if it is leaking it is either a leak in the case, take it back or overcharging, you would smell the battery if it was overcharging, also it would get hot.
charging rate should be around the 14-14.5 volt range





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russbost

posted on 18/7/18 at 06:54 PM Reply With Quote
It does sound like overcharging, are you getting a weird sort of metallic smell that you can almost taste?

As said, to check, just use a voltmeter, check with engine at idle & no load, should be around 14 -14.5V, no higher than 14.5, then increase revs to around 2 - 3,000, voltage should not increase significantly & defo not outside the parameters above. Then put a load on, like dipped headlights, & you would expect a slight drop in voltage at idle, which should increase again at say 2-3,000 rpm, but again not above 14.5v





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chrisbmxr

posted on 18/7/18 at 07:24 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by russbost
It does sound like overcharging, are you getting a weird sort of metallic smell that you can almost taste?

As said, to check, just use a voltmeter, check with engine at idle & no load, should be around 14 -14.5V, no higher than 14.5, then increase revs to around 2 - 3,000, voltage should not increase significantly & defo not outside the parameters above. Then put a load on, like dipped headlights, & you would expect a slight drop in voltage at idle, which should increase again at say 2-3,000 rpm, but again not above 14.5v


Thanks, I'll test it tomorrow.

No smells that I could notice to be honest!

If it is overcharging, I presume a new regulator is needed? It's a Fireblade 919cc engine, running a full sized car battery.

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CosKev3

posted on 18/7/18 at 09:09 PM Reply With Quote
If it is overcharging get yourself a newer Mosfet type regulater.
You can buy a kit that comes complete with new plugs and wiring

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chrisbmxr

posted on 19/7/18 at 12:59 PM Reply With Quote
So, tested it today.

Battery standing - 12.7v
Engine running (idle but with choke on) - 17v ... and climbing (I turned it off at this point as I could hear the battery sizzling!)

Sounds to me like a busted regulator? Gonna need another new battery now as well

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russbost

posted on 19/7/18 at 01:18 PM Reply With Quote
Oh well at least you have your answer, lucky it's not damaged other electrics such as ECU etc!





Furore Formula Car - the only two seater modern Formula Car lookalike. I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours. http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1

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chrisbmxr

posted on 19/7/18 at 02:07 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
If it is overcharging get yourself a newer Mosfet type regulater.
You can buy a kit that comes complete with new plugs and wiring


Just looked in to these, they do seem more reliable! Are they easy to fit?

Just ordered myself a voltmeter to fit permanently so I can keep an eye on things in future!

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chrisbmxr

posted on 19/7/18 at 03:14 PM Reply With Quote
OK, so just went to remove the regulator unit to be greeted by this!!!

I'm wondering whether this has been caused by my regulator overcharging, or is this the cause of the regulator failing? Looks like the side with the live terminal which goes to the battery.





I'm no electrical engineer, but I think something's gone wrong here!!!

Could have a problem with my stator as well?

Any help is greatly appreciated

[Edited on 19/7/18 by chrisbmxr]

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CosKev3

posted on 19/7/18 at 03:33 PM Reply With Quote
If you buy a Mosfet kit you can cut that melted plug off and insulate the wires as they come with all the required plugs etc.

Majority of BECs with old wiring looms have regulater plugs that look like that!

I reckon your stator will be ok,as it's still making voltage.

And yeah a Mosfet kit with new wiring and plugs is easy enough to fit

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CosKev3

posted on 19/7/18 at 03:36 PM Reply With Quote
http://www.roadstercycle.com

I bought mine from Jack at the link above

Some good videos on there to show you how to test stator too

Just be aware our asshole government will charge you import tax and VAT on top of jacks prices

[Edited on 19/7/18 by CosKev3]

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chrisbmxr

posted on 30/7/18 at 07:13 PM Reply With Quote
UPDATE:

So, I soldered a new connector block on and fitted a new rectifier and brand new battery today (I am planning to upgrade to mosfet when I overhaul all the wiring in a couple of months) but for now I've gone for a standard replacement.

With the engine running my multimeter is reading 12.4 - 12.6v across the battery and the rectifier gets very hot, very quick. Is this right? I was expecting it to be reading 13.8 - 14.4v for some reason. The reading is similar with the rectifier unplugged!

[Edited on 30/7/18 by chrisbmxr]

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daviep

posted on 30/7/18 at 09:44 PM Reply With Quote
It's not charging, possibly check your wiring to the rectcifier was it a genuine rectifier or generic OEM, plug may not be same configuration if generic





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chrisbmxr

posted on 31/7/18 at 02:55 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
It's not charging, possibly check your wiring to the rectcifier was it a genuine rectifier or generic OEM, plug may not be same configuration if generic


It was a direct replacement with the same plug configuration.

I've just tried the old rectifier to see if it overcharges again, but it's not charging the battery anymore either!

I wondered if it could be a stator issue, though the stator wires do get hot indicating it is putting out charge?

I've checked the resistance through the three stator wires - 0.5/0.4/0.5 and none have continuity to ground.

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CosKev3

posted on 31/7/18 at 05:49 PM Reply With Quote
Check the output voltage on the stator wires,you need to set the meter to AC not DC,voltage should rise with revs
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chrisbmxr

posted on 2/8/18 at 08:35 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Check the output voltage on the stator wires,you need to set the meter to AC not DC,voltage should rise with revs


OK, so I gave this a go (I'm not sure I was doing it correctly though - I'm not familiar with AC) and all 3 stator wires only read 0.8v~0.9v rising very slightly with revs.

I did however fit a voltmeter across the battery and took the car out for the afternoon. When I left the voltage was reading 12.5v, and when I came back after around 70 miles it was still reading 12.5v, so there had been very little drain if any.

Is it possible that my stator is charging, but very weak and on it's way out?

Really appreciate everyone's help on this!

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CosKev3

posted on 2/8/18 at 04:25 PM Reply With Quote
Yeah it must be charging or you would have broken down!

The revs listed to test bike charging systems is quite high,so you need to rev it up to circa 5k RPM and check voltage then.

A proper test of your charging system is to drive with headlights etc on and see if it can't cope then.

It may well be it's down to your old bike loom wiring,hence why the Mosfet kit comes with new wires to go from it to the battery

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MikeRJ

posted on 3/8/18 at 02:56 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chrisbmxr
UPDATE:

So, I soldered a new connector block on and fitted a new rectifier and brand new battery today (I am planning to upgrade to mosfet when I overhaul all the wiring in a couple of months) but for now I've gone for a standard replacement.

With the engine running my multimeter is reading 12.4 - 12.6v across the battery and the rectifier gets very hot, very quick. Is this right? I was expecting it to be reading 13.8 - 14.4v for some reason. The reading is similar with the rectifier unplugged!



Please don't say you went for a cheap Chinese pattern part? They are complete and utter junk - the worst of them are literally filled with sand and nothing else. Use an OEM regulator. It doesn't have to be from a Honda, something from almost any modern (made in the last 20 years or so) large capacity bike will use a similar regulator, though connectors are often different.

That said the older SCR based regulators naturally get hot in operation, lower power dissipation is a big advantage of MOSFET based regulators.

[Edited on 3/8/18 by MikeRJ]

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gingerprince

posted on 3/8/18 at 03:30 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Please don't say you went for a cheap Chinese pattern part? They are complete and utter junk - the worst of them are literally filled with sand and nothing else. Use an OEM regulator. It doesn't have to be from a Honda, something from almost any modern (made in the last 20 years or so) large capacity bike will use a similar regulator, though connectors are often different.



I made this mistake - bought off eBay, described as "replacement for MOSFET". Got ridiculously hot and shut down after 10 minutes due to over-temp. Fried my stator too.

If they're 30 quid and described as "replacement for FH012AA or FH020AA" they're junk. Eventually I found a genuine FH012AA as old shelf stock on ebay and it's been brilliant.

The genuine ones have flat metal bases - the replicas are generally resin.

There's a pre-owned example here

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-SHINDENGEN-FH012AA-REGULATOR-RECTIFIER-Reg-Rec-MOSFET-FH020AA-Original/332731904834?epid=13007303868&hash=item4 d785df342%3Ag%3AyX0AAOSwwg5ZyQuU&LH_PrefLoc=1&_sacat=0&_nkw=fh020aa&_from=R40&rt=nc

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CosKev3

posted on 4/8/18 at 08:44 AM Reply With Quote
http://www.roadstercycle.com

Not much more than that used one for a full kit with all fittings

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