Alan_Thomas
|
| posted on 10/2/05 at 05:15 PM |
|
|
How to recognise paint types?
Can anyone help me?
Are there any simple tests to to find out what type of paint a car is finished in. ie 2 Pack, Acrylic or cellouse?
I have to repair some paintwork on a non original finish and I know some paint types do not cover others.
I understand 2 pack would cover all other types but rule it out on health (I don't want to die!) reasons.
- Alan
|
|
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 10/2/05 at 06:54 PM |
|
|
Put some cellulose thinners on an ear bud and draw a line on the paint.
Celly will wipe off, with colour coming of on the bud immediately
Synthetic will crinkle up in about 5 mins
Acrylic will craze in about 20 mins
2k will do nothing at all
If 2k, you need to know if it is clear over base or solid. Get some abrasive paste and poish a small area. If the cloth comes up clean, it is COB, if
coloured it is solid
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
Ben_Copeland
|
| posted on 10/2/05 at 07:02 PM |
|
|
2 pack can be sprayed.... just get one of the cheap throw away masks the paint shops do.
Or spray it in the open air if worried, with mask.
Ben
Locost Map on Google Maps
Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
Enter Your Details Here
http://www.facebook.com/EquinoxProducts for all your bodywork needs!
|
|
|
chunkielad
|
| posted on 10/2/05 at 09:27 PM |
|
|
Any of the paints made by Autopaint are low cyanate so a decent carbon filtered mask will do but defo still need
ventilation like any paint really.
Just ask the supplier for a low cyanate version of 2pac and they should be able to offer you one - there was a large change in paint about 4-5 years
ago due to environmental and health related issues - you can even get water based paint now but it needs to be baked - will spray over ANYTHING
though!!!
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 10/2/05 at 10:00 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
2 pack can be sprayed.... just get one of the cheap throw away masks the paint shops do.
Or spray it in the open air if worried, with mask.
TOTALLY WRONG!!!!!!
A cheap paintshop mask for spraying is about £140 for the mask, £80 for the purifier, £25 for the regulator, If you are thinking about the cheap
vapour masks, these are totally useless against isocyanate. If you spray outdoors, you endager yourself and others, the stuff does not diffuse in the
atmosphere.
Sorry to be so abrupt, but this stuff is dangerous, not immediately because it is cumulative, it does not breakdown in the body like celly does, but
stores up until you get to your personal level - then you die. This really does happen, I know 5 painters who have died before the age of 35 due to
being a bit casual with 2k, 2 who were on my C&G course. I no longer paint, but do the boring paperwork instead.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 10/2/05 at 10:16 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by chunkielad
Any of the paints made by Autopaint are low cyanate so a decent carbon filtered mask will do but defo still need
ventilation like any paint really.
Just ask the supplier for a low cyanate version of 2pac and they should be able to offer you one - there was a large change in paint about 4-5 years
ago due to environmental and health related issues - you can even get water based paint now but it needs to be baked - will spray over ANYTHING
though!!!
The autopaints products are low VOC, not isocyanate, as are all 2k paints these days.
Water borne paints need to be fan dried, then lacquered with a 2k isocyanate clearcoat which has to be baked (as with all 2k systems)
THE ONLY WAY TO PAINT 2K IS WITH A COMMERCIAL AIR FED MASK IN A PROPER CONDITIONED PAINT BOOTH
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
Ben_Copeland
|
| posted on 10/2/05 at 10:19 PM |
|
|
Must be a different 2k then to the ones i'm supplied, cos they dont need baking ever. Only if you want it to dry quicker. Confused at that one
Ben
Locost Map on Google Maps
Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
Enter Your Details Here
http://www.facebook.com/EquinoxProducts for all your bodywork needs!
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 10/2/05 at 10:22 PM |
|
|
2k's dont use a dryer, it is an accellerator component, faster ones have more more active catalyst to promote faster curing, but make the paint
harder and more brittle, less easy to polish.
If you are confused by 2k, or have the slightest doubt about methods, safety, procedure, or equipment DON'T USE IT
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 10/2/05 at 10:39 PM |
|
|
How did you get hold of the paint in the first place?
It is illigal to sell the stuff to anyone except a DTI registered bodyshop - not without good reason
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
Ben_Copeland
|
| posted on 10/2/05 at 10:41 PM |
|
|
Thats why i'm thinking it's not the same stuff.....
Cos the local paint shop can sell it to anyone
Ben
Locost Map on Google Maps
Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
Enter Your Details Here
http://www.facebook.com/EquinoxProducts for all your bodywork needs!
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 10/2/05 at 10:49 PM |
|
|
A simple way to test. Put 4 parts paint and 1 part component in a small pot and leave in a warm place for 1 hour. If it solidifies, it is 2k
If it just skins over it is 2 part paint, basically synthetic with a faster solvent
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
Alan_Thomas
|
| posted on 10/2/05 at 11:12 PM |
|
|
Thanks Mark for your first reply to my original question. I will do the test and see what type of paint it is.
Your advice to other listers on the subject of paint is very relevent. Listen to him everyone he isn't a bodyshop guy trying to sell you a
respray, he's pointing out the very real dangers of airbourne pollutents, whether you are a miner, a flour miller or laying up fibreglass
nothing you breathe in does your lungs any good in high concentrations! - Alan
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 11/2/05 at 07:54 PM |
|
|
Sorry to sound a bit of a nanny, but you really need to be careful with this stuff.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 11/2/05 at 08:34 PM |
|
|
Iso-cynate paints are nasty --- as Mark already mentioned they have cumulative effect but also it is important to stress everybodies tolerance
level is different and there is no way of telling what it is until you exceed it.
Another disadvantage is the overspray carries for a very great distance -- unlike celulose it dosen't dry and remains tacky -- causing damage
to property and people.
|
|
|
chunkielad
|
| posted on 11/2/05 at 09:28 PM |
|
|
Autopaint are actually advertising round here that you DO NOT NEED AN AIR FED MASK with their LOW CYANATE product!!!
These guys have all of their training with a good quality 3M Charcoal filtered mask on - it IS LOW CYANATE. BUT only if you ask for low cyanate.
A well ventilated area is Essential but not outdoors as you wouldn't get a decent finnish anyway due to all the crap in the air and it's
not the best thing to have flying around where people are not wearing masks.
Obviously it is always best to ensure that you are OVERSAFE but I am telling you now that these guys wouldn't have been in the industry for
anywhere near as long as they have if they gave out ridiculously false information like this. It would be dangerous and not just sueable but probably
legally prosecutable.
Product on their website - AUTOCLEAR - 1 ltr Non Isocyanate Clear & 1 ltr Acitivator £ 12.50 _ I have used this over and over and never had to
bake it.
Saying that and airfed mask will not be a daft idea!!!!
|
|
|
stephen_gusterson
|
| posted on 13/2/05 at 11:56 PM |
|
|
couple of comments.
dont EVER think of spraying a car outside! not only will you get the whole flying wildlife in the area stuck to it, you will get a crap job. you will
need to hold the gun too close to stop the spray blowing away, and will get runs.
been there, done that, 20 years ago on my first respray. also taught me not to use a burgess electric gun too!!!!!
second - i think it was a story told by mark that i found scary about 2k. when it does kill you, it does so by shagging the nerves in your lungs. it
stops the lungs from working. furthermore, the nerves that tell you that you cant breathe also get shagged. so, for the last min or so of your life,
you dont know you cant breathe until everything just goes dark.
nice 
atb
steve
[Edited on 13/2/05 by stephen_gusterson]
|
|
|
