Alez
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| posted on 30/3/05 at 02:08 PM |
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Locoblade bhp / ton increase?
I've got a pretty minimalistic Blade I got from Tom about one year ago now. It's a Stuart Taylor kit (live axle), no LSD (Sierra or Escort
diff), no reverse or fancy stuff, '97 918 cc 128 bhp engine with ST chopped sump, 13" minilites. In case you haven't seen it yet:
http://usuarios.tiscali.es/alez/polvorilla.htm
It's a fantastic ride, but I'm missing the Isonblade ridiculous acceleration and I'm starting to consider increasing bhp / ton a bit
somehow. I'm not looking for something as quick as this one was (something like 159 bhp max at the wheels if I remember well?), maybe more in
the region of 340 bhp / ton. The car now weighs 460 kg wet with full tank.
What would you look at for a starter? The engine is now standard so I assume some safe tuning potential there? Also I was surprised that the car is
rather heavy but I'm not sure about how to cut weight in a cost effective way. Could it be that the Stuart Taylor chassis is a bit heavier than
a "book" chassis?
Cheers,
Alex
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locoboy
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| posted on 30/3/05 at 02:30 PM |
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Alez,
It may be possible to get the engine tuned on a rolling road and rejet the carbs to increase performance.
if its the manic acceleration you miss then i would say the cheapest way to overcome that is to change the diff for a shorter one to the detriment of
top end speed.
When you start to strip weight off an already built car things can either be very dificult/messy to remove or very expensive to replace with lighter
weight items.
Possibly look at lighter wheels and GRP shell seats to save yourself probably 20Kg, this could probably be done with very little money added by you if
you sold the set of wheels on it already and the 2 seats out of it.
Possibly change the callipers to alluminium ones and the front uprights and hubs to alloy ones, upgrade your exhaust to a lighter one possibly using a
motorbike race can if its legal in Spain but these are expensive upgrades per Kg saved.
I dont know if the ST chassis is particularly heavy or not.
ATB
Locoboy
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MikeR
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| posted on 30/3/05 at 03:17 PM |
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ST chassis shouldn't be any heavier than any others.....
check to see if you've got a steel or ali floor (not easy to replace but that is one area he saves weight on bike / non race cars)
You can get lighter roll cages made out of T45 (or is it t50?) i know some one who lost loads (keep thinking half but it probably wasn't)
getting a roll cage from caged in the uk.
wheels, calipers, disks, hubs can all be changed easily to alloy to save weight.
What about your radiator, could you run a smaller one?
Do you have a grp bonnet / rear? Ali might be a little lighter.
or just fit a bigger engine 
Just seen the pics, are those GRP sides ? ali is lighter - but it will change how your car looks, and it looks fantastic!
[Edited on 30/3/05 by MikeR]
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MarkClow
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| posted on 30/3/05 at 03:36 PM |
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Sounds like Busa motor time.
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locoboy
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| posted on 30/3/05 at 03:43 PM |
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Without wishing to take anything away from Alez, and he has stated so in the past, that mechanics is not his strongest subject, therefore the fitting
of a new engine is probably not an option.
He is after EASY ways to gain notable results.
ATB
Locoboy
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welderman
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| posted on 30/3/05 at 03:48 PM |
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How about Nos.....
Supercharger...
Turbo.
Might go the Nos route my-self.
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 30/3/05 at 04:08 PM |
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Alez, a pair of cams (maybe you could get them fitted?) and a dyno session would see it up there,
The spec of yours and my old car was worked head, uprated cams and a good dyno session, the diff change mentioned above would give you the
acceleration but you would lose out on the top end, the Isonblade had both, top speed was around 134mph pulling 10mph in top for around each
900rpm.
If you could get it done localy maybe an R1 transplant ? One thing for sure you dont need to go on a diet..... but maybe the car does.
BTW i did offer you the NOS n spare engine when you bought the car, actually NOS is a pretty safe bet easy too fit and if you dont fancy fitting it
yourself not expensive to have fitted (not a lot of labour time involved) but can you run laughing gas over there ?
[Edited on 30/3/05 by Jon Ison]
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Hellfire
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| posted on 30/3/05 at 05:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkClow
Sounds like Busa motor time.
Thought you meant Hayabusa - obviously you meant a ZX12R...
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Alez
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| posted on 31/3/05 at 08:07 AM |
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Thank you
Dear All,
Thank you so much for all these suggestions, there's tons of useful information in your posts. I'm embarrassed to ask a few things,
I'm totally lost with engine terminology due to inexperience and language I really would like to make sure I understand everything. I
appreciate your patience.
BTW I really should keep the ratios I have now, the engine is already screaming quite a bit at not so high speeds.
> get the engine tuned on a rolling road and rejet the carbs
Sorry I can't understand this, can you explain the meaning of "tuned on a rolling road"? Does that mean "adjust fuel / air
mixture at the carbs while the car is going" or is a "rolling road" some kind of facility to do this?
> look at lighter wheels
Are minilites heavy compared to other 13" rims? Or you mean tyres? I have 185/60R13 Yoko Avon tyres, I feel 185 is about best for this car.
> Ali might be a little lighter
Ali = aluminium? Ali = alloy? Sorry!
> He is after EASY ways to gain notable results
Absolutely right. I'm hopeless with mechanics and I don't have much money to spend. It has to be simple or nothing.
> a pair of cams (maybe you could get them fitted?) and a dyno session would see it up there
> worked head, uprated cams and a good dyno session
This looks like something a specialist could do for my engine. Sorry but I need to fully understand this..
> worked head
Will a specialist understand "worked head" or do I need to be any more specific about the work I'd like to be carried on?
> uprated cams
Does that mean "buy a pair of stronger cams (aftermarket?) and fit them"? Any pointers to brands, etc. I should look at for this?
> good dyno session
Any of you could explain the meaning of this? I don't even know the meaning of "dyno" Sorry.
> can you run laughing gas over there ?
I don't know but I can surely do it the Spanish way: bugger it, I'm fitting this!! Cause nobody knows if it's legal or not, police
officers don't know, MOT inspectors don't know, SVA inspectors don't know, nobody does this kind of thing here. I'll keep this
possibility as a last resort for now anyway
Thank you!!
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ned
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| posted on 31/3/05 at 08:36 AM |
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Alex,
To help a bit with explanations..
> get the engine tuned on a rolling road and rejet the carbs
tuning a car on a rolling road is when the car is running and wheels turning on a set of rollers in a workshop (similar idea to setup used for brake
testing for a uk mot), so the car can be monitored and fueling adjustments etc made to optimise the fueling/power of the engine etc.
> look at lighter wheels
I doubt you'd get much lighter wheels than you already have, without going for expensive split rims - i wouldn't look at changing the
wheels myself as they're already pretty small and light imho.
> Ali might be a little lighter
Ali/ally = aluminium, obviously a bit of work to change the bonnet and side panels, not sure on figures of the weight difference either myself. You
could get ali panels sprayed to maintain the appearance of the car, but again cost is a deciding factor.
> a pair of cams (maybe you could get them fitted?) and a dyno session would see it up there
> worked head, uprated cams and a good dyno session
Pair of cams are the camshaft's which are used in the engine to give the valve opening/closing which determines how long the valves are open/how
far they open to allow fuel into the engine. cam with a profile that give higher lift or more duration are available for most engines, though I
don't know specifically about bec's i'm afraid.
A worked head is one that has been taken off the engine and worked on a bench in a workshop. The shape of the inlet ports is normally changed around
the inlet valves to increase the flow of the fuel/air mixture into the engine.
A dyno is a dynomometer, basically same idea as a rolling road (engine is run up in a workshop) but this is done with the jsut the engine ie out of
the car, normally on a test bed or similar, so again fueling, cam timing etc can be properly setup. This will be much more expensive than a rolling
road session.
Hope that lot makes sense/helps!
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Alez
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| posted on 31/3/05 at 10:51 AM |
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That helps A LOT mister, thank you very much.
Whenever I look at modifications like these, I really wonder why the engine was not designed like that in the first place: manufacturing cost would be
the same and performance is boosted by nearly 50% in the case of the Isonblade  Is it consumption, emissions, reliability??
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ned
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| posted on 31/3/05 at 11:05 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Alez
Is it consumption, emissions, reliability??
you got it in one! a combination of the above and eu regs i would imagine..
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 31/3/05 at 11:20 AM |
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As Ned said its all three, reliability is a big factor though Id think. Generally moderately tuned engines can still be kept fairly reliable if the
engine is cared for properly (warmed up properly, frequent oil changes etc) but for a manufacturer you cant push the boundaries so much because not
all owners will care for their engines as much. If they supplied an engine thats very highly tuned "from the factory" they'd get
loads more warranty claims etc.
If you want another Isonblade-esque engine maybe it would be cheaper to buy a second hand one ready tuned from
Sidenet or something?
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Alez
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| posted on 31/3/05 at 01:13 PM |
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Thank you guys. Excellent explanation Chris, and excellent link as well, changing the engine is an interesting possibility actually.
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Alez
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| posted on 1/4/05 at 12:00 PM |
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How about adding a turbo? It is currently being discussed here:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=24163
Is that something you can do instead of cam / head mod or is it something you may do only after modifying cam / head? Have you discarded the
possibility for any particular reason? (Reliability, cost or simply because I mentioned a mild increase?)
Cheers,
Alex
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ned
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| posted on 1/4/05 at 12:03 PM |
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there would crtainly be a worthwhile power gain, it's just whether its cost effective for you to buy a kit (expensive i gather) or have the
ability/someone there who can make/fabricate all the bits for you..
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Alez
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| posted on 1/4/05 at 12:17 PM |
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Reason I'm asking is because, from the point of view of the inexperienced, this solution looks much more "reversible" in case things
don't go well. In other words, the engine as it is now is worth some money. If I spend money having some mod work done in it, I may end up with
a botch job and lose a nice standard engine. The turbo may be too expensive for what I want, but it may be practical as it is an add-on somehow..
So do you think I may consider a turbo kit (if I can find one!) INSTEAD of the other mods at all?
Cheers,
Alex
PS: Ned, have you installed any notifier tool in your PC to tell when there's a new post in Locostbuilders??
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 1/4/05 at 01:01 PM |
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Unless you can find somewhere that will do it all for you (ie lots of £££), I would avoid the turbo route due to the complexity. Apart from the turbo
itself, you'll have to buy / get made a new manifold, a plenum chamber and an intercooler, thats before you start thinking about how you are
going to add the extra fuel that will be needed (you may need something like a megasquirt running some additional injectors for example or at very
least get the carbs totally reworked to suit). Because the manifold is totally different it will also leave you with a gaping hole in the side panel
with nothing to fill it so a new side panel would be in order, and you might even have to look at things like moving the engine a little if you cant
get the turbo packaged inside the chassis - which would mean new engine mounts etc.
I don't want to sound like a scaremonger but having seen a couple of friends have lots of headaches and technical challenges with turbo
conversions over the winter, I would say that a turbo is a lot more complicated an upgrade than you first think.
Chris
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Alez
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| posted on 1/4/05 at 01:19 PM |
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Nothing of an easy add-on Looks like more difficult than switching to R1, which I'm not considering because of complexity.
Thank you Chris.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 1/4/05 at 02:21 PM |
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Blade to R1 isnt that difficult, but it is fairly time consuming and not something you'd want to tackle if you didnt have confidence in
wiring and getting all the plumbing correct etc. Something like an R1 conversion would cost you less in parts and labour than a turbo though, I reckon
its cost me £800-1200 to do my conversion and that includes going to fuel injection (+£200) a 2nd hand digidash (£300) and a tarty manifold (~£500). I
did sell all the old blade bits though, so selling the old engine / exhaust / clocks plus some other bits I had laying around eases the burden
otherwise you'd be looking at well over £2k. If you had to add labour onto that though, there's probably a days worth of fabrication on
the engine mounts etc then at least 30 hours of time for someone quicker than me to do it (Ive taken longer than that Id think!)
Chris
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Alez
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| posted on 4/4/05 at 12:59 PM |
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Thank you Chris. I'm definitely not trying any of these two
How about ECU reprogramming? Can it be done? Pros and cons? I just realized we have not discussed this one at all here, and this one should be easy?
Jon, did you have a factory ECU?
Cheers,
Alex
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 4/4/05 at 01:13 PM |
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Not much to be gained from "chipping" an ecu unless the engine in question is already turbocharged, probably 3-5bhp on average at most
even though the blurb generally claims more.
In short Im afraid there's no real easy way to significant power gains otherwise we'd all be doing it 
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Alez
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| posted on 4/4/05 at 02:21 PM |
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> In short Im afraid there's no real easy way to significant power gains otherwise we'd all be doing it
Doesn't surprise me! Thanks for the useful info.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 4/4/05 at 02:30 PM |
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Don't give up though, its not impossible - I would say the only way you might do it without lots of work is for you to pick up a ready tuned
blade engine 2nd hand for maybe £1200-1500 from somewhere like Sidenet (sidecar racing forum), then sell your
engine for maybe £800. That would make the overall cost fairly low, and it would be a straight swap bar maybe a rolling road session to sort out the
fuelling for your exhaust.
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Alez
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| posted on 5/4/05 at 10:05 AM |
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Yes I'm with you Chris. I've been having a look at Sidenet, lots of 600 cc engines but I'll keep an eye, it looks like a good
resource. As for overall cost, I'm sure it will be slightly higher here because not a lot of people do this stuff and I may end up selling my
original engine in the UK (paying for the delivery) or who knows what, and same for the rolling road session. Still it's all good advice and
it's good to learn all this.
At this very moment I'm trying to sort out a place where I'll be able to properly tinker with the car, which is why all these ideas of
improvements are coming to my mind lately. Also I'm very near the end of the process of importing it (no Spanish reg for me yet ) and it
looks like I'll succeed with that (if I don't, I'll have to take the car back to the UK to sell it as it is). Lots of plans and
things to happen.
Cheers,
Alex
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