highspeeddirt
|
| posted on 5/12/05 at 03:04 AM |
|
|
R1 Engine Angle
I'm trying to get the best position for my '03 FI R1. The problem is with the sump parallel to the floor I'm having to put the
engine more forward and to the centre of the chassis. I wanted to set the engine as far back as possible and also more to the nearside of the chassis
for better weight distribution. At the moment with the engine postioned where I would like it the sump is about 1cm higher on the nearside than the
offside. Am I better off getting the sump flat and therefore the engine at the same angle as in the bike or leaving it slightly more upright, as if
the bike was always going uphill, and having better weight distribution? There are no carbs to worry about fuel levels so it's really a question
of oil level and oil surge. I have a baffle fitted.
Opinions please.
Steve
|
|
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 5/12/05 at 08:50 AM |
|
|
It should be set so that the engine sits flat on the floor, doing it that way does make the sump base pretty much level but makes the sump gasket line
angled which is possibly what you're thinking about Chris?
I personally wouldnt run it at an angle just to gain an inch or two in positioning because you really won't notice the weight distribution
difference unless you're Michael Schumacher, and you're much more likely to run into oil surge issues because you're encouraging the
oil to constantly run away from the pickup which sits in the centre. Also as Chris says it will muck up the accuracy of the sight glass.
cheers
Chris
[Edited on 5/12/05 by ChrisGamlin]
|
|
|
progers
|
| posted on 5/12/05 at 10:28 AM |
|
|
From what I have seen, an angle anywhere between the sump gasket being horizontal and the base of the sump being horizontal will be OK. In my original
MK Indy R1 the sump gasket was approx horizontal and I did not have any issues with surge with ACB10's on track. Given the choice I'd put
it somewhere between the two.
As Chris has mentioned though, you need to be aware that the oil level in the sight glass will change depending on angle. Make sure you compensate
appropriately.
Cheers
Paul
|
|
|
jimgiblett
|
| posted on 5/12/05 at 12:42 PM |
|
|
The Generator cover has "Yamaha" horizontally embossed in large letters. On my new engine this is still horizontal as per the bike.
On my old R1 motor I had the exhaust side slightly higher than the inlet and never had any oil surge issues.
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 5/12/05 at 02:13 PM |
|
|
Yep, my generator cover logo is fairly horizontal too.
I guess these guys have proven that the R1 can cope with a bit of deviation, and thinking about it putting the engine slightly more upright might
actually help on clockwise circuits as the oil will need to go up hill to surge away from the pickup, although I still feel the optimum position is as
Jim says with the logo / sump flat so the pickup is at the lowest point in the engine and the oil has less tendancy to run away to one edge.
I think the main thing is not to compromise the engine position too much in the hunt for the absolute best theoretical weight distribution because if
you think about it, assuming most of us are on the wrong side of 60kgs, moving the engine back a couple of inches is likely to have even less effect
on the handling than sliding your seat forward a couple of inches on the runners 
When's yours back on the road Jim?
|
|
|
jimgiblett
|
| posted on 5/12/05 at 02:56 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
When's yours back on the road Jim?
Work, social life and a cold garage has slowed me down. Just the electrics to finish off. Then I can start her up.
Is there a Portsmouth curry night this year?
|
|
|
highspeeddirt
|
| posted on 5/12/05 at 05:05 PM |
|
|
Cheers for all the info.
I've had a go at repositioning the engine and no matter where I put it I can't get the sump flat without the exhaust, the mounts or the
oil pressure take off hitting the chassis. I've ended up back to my original position which leaves the engine about half way between the sump
bottom and the sump gasket being horizontal. As this seems to be OK I will stick with it there and work out where the max oil level mark will be to
compensate for the angle. IIRC the oil level is done by running the engine 'til warm, switch off, leave a few minutes, fill to max and then
overfill by 250ml. Is this right?
Thanks, Steve
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 5/12/05 at 05:54 PM |
|
|
The 02/03 engine has a deeper sump than the earlier engines so I personally don't think that the 250ml overfill is required on these engines.
Ive run mine this year to the top of the sight glass when idling and have not had any issues at all, and also possibly get one extra benefit whereby
the oil doesnt excessively blow out the breather pipe like it does sometimes do on the earlier engines like Jim's old one did. Also only filling
to the top of the sight glass makes it easier to keep an eye on the levels, if its always above the sight glass Im not sure you you can refill it
until it gets back down to the top of the sight glass anyhow?
Chris
BTW Jim, no curry that I know of at the mo, but we'll probably have one at some point even if its not before Xmas.
|
|
|
progers
|
| posted on 6/12/05 at 08:53 AM |
|
|
Hi Chris,
If you are filling to the top of the sight glass when idling you are overfilling it a little....by about 250ml!
According to the manual you should switch off the engine and wait a minute or so, then check. I'd bet it would be well over the sight glass by
then :-)
- Paul
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 6/12/05 at 08:55 AM |
|
|
Yep I am overfilling compared to Yam's recommendation, but I understood the old R1 trick that Rich Miles found out from Yamaha France was to
fill to the top of the sight glass when idling, then put in another 250ml, ie another 250ml on top of what I put in?
Chris
|
|
|
progers
|
| posted on 6/12/05 at 09:13 AM |
|
|
Nope, just filling to the max level (not right to the top of the sight glass) when idling is overfilling enough. I had many a conversation with Rich
on that one. This will typically result in a level that is above the sight glass when the engine is switched off.
You can at a max fill to the top of the sight glass when idling but I wouldn't go any further than that.
As long as th oil level remains between the min and max lines when idling you won't get any noticeable surge.
- Paul
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 6/12/05 at 09:21 AM |
|
|
Ah OK, I misunderstood the original method then. 
|
|
|
