Philbo
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 posted on 29/3/03 at 05:26 PM |
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Next stupid question...what rivets?
Looked into buying some rivets today for my book racing Locost. I know they should be 3x10mm, but does it matter if they are ali or steel? Domed,
flush or blind? Or does it not matter one jot?
Sorry to ask such a nooboid question, but I don't want to make a mistake and drill out 500 rivets after the event!
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Jasper
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| posted on 29/3/03 at 09:00 PM |
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Use ali not steel, unless you've got serious wrist power.
Some use blind, I haven't. I've used countersunk in visible areas, normal in others.
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wicket
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| posted on 30/3/03 at 01:31 PM |
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Done the same as Jasper but I used blind rivets to keep the chassis tubes sealed.
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eddymcclements
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| posted on 31/3/03 at 11:37 AM |
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FWIW, I used 4mm sealed-end aluminium rivets. If you are having trouble locating suitable rivets, let me know and I'll send you some.
Eddy
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Philbo
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| posted on 3/4/03 at 10:00 AM |
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Cheers Eddy,
I need a full set (about 500 I think) and a riveter so I was going to buy them from engineeringsupplies.com. Are blind rivets the same as the sealed
ones?
So I'm looking for 500 of 3x10mm blind ali rivets?
Thanks for help chaps
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eddymcclements
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| posted on 3/4/03 at 01:36 PM |
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Blind rivets means any rivet which can be fixed from one side only, because you can't get to the other side of the workpiece. Normal rivets are
fitted from one side and deformed using a bucking bar and rivetting gun (usually an air-powered hammer), one one each side.
When rivetting sheet onto tube you have to use a blind rivet because you can't get inside the tube. Most people refer to them as Pop rivets,
though this is actually a brand name, like everyone calls their vacuum cleaner a Hoover. Other brands you may come across are Cherry and Avex -
particularly in the aircraft industry.
The reason I recommend sealed-end rivets is because many ordinary blind rivets don't produce a water-tight seal - water can get past the
broken-off mandrel which remains in the rivet.
Hope this helps,
Eddy
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GO
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| posted on 3/4/03 at 01:50 PM |
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Eddy,
Got a recommended supplier for stainless sealed blind rivets??
Cheers.
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eddymcclements
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| posted on 3/4/03 at 02:24 PM |
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Some good stuff on rivets here and
here.
Eddy
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eddymcclements
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| posted on 3/4/03 at 02:26 PM |
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GO,
Have a look at Primary Fasteners web site. They also offer small quantities, and can supply stainless,
sealed-end, blind rivets.
You'll need strong wrists, though!
Cheers,
Eddy
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Hellfire
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| posted on 31/10/03 at 04:19 PM |
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Stainless Rivets
GO,
I believe using Stainless Steel rivets on Aluminium is a bad idea... the reasons being as follows:
Stainless Steel contains a decent proportion of Nickel.
Nickel is used is batteries with another metal - often cadmium.
Nickel/Aluminium together with water ie moisture produces a charging effect.
This charging effect with microscopically erode the aluminium - known as sacrifical erosion used on ships etc.
Before you know it - the rivets will be surrounded by white powder (aluminium oxide) and panels will fall off...
I wouldn't use them!
Course... someone may know better.
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James
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| posted on 31/10/03 at 04:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by eddymcclements
GO,
Have a look at Primary Fasteners web site. They also offer small quantities, and can supply stainless,
sealed-end, blind rivets.
You'll need strong wrists, though!
Cheers,
Eddy
So these'd be the ones we want then?
http://www.prifast.co.uk/rivets.htm
"Closed or Sealed Type Blind Rivet"
Thanks,
James
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Stu16v
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| posted on 31/10/03 at 06:40 PM |
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quote:
This charging effect with microscopically erode the aluminium - known as sacrifical erosion used on ships etc.
Electrolysis is what would happen IIRC, and is likely to occur when ANY two metals are in close proximity.
Yup. even ali and mild steel.....
Dont just build it.....make it!
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Hellfire
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| posted on 31/10/03 at 09:36 PM |
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Therefore...
...probably the most suitable rivets to use would be aluminium to aluminium...
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JoelP
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| posted on 31/10/03 at 11:01 PM |
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either way the steel chassis is gonna be in contact with the aluminium, but no one has said it causes a problem on their cars. Since aluminium is
fairly unreactive due to the surface coat os AlO that forms, would it be ok on a car anyway?
as it stands i cant be arsed with aluminium cos its too steep.
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Stu16v
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| posted on 31/10/03 at 11:14 PM |
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It is a problem, but not a big one, if the car is built thoughtfully, and looked after, it is not a big problem.
Dont just build it.....make it!
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UncleFista
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| posted on 1/11/03 at 09:04 PM |
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As an aside, I heartily recommend a compressor and air-powered rivet gun.
But then, I'm lazy 
Tony Bond / UncleFista
Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra.
Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath.
At night the ice-weasels come...
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Hellfire
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 posted on 1/11/03 at 11:16 PM |
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Lazy G*t
I'd second that emotion.. specially when riveting the floor! 150~200 rivets cant be wrong! Ain't that right Olive? Arg, arg, arg, arg,
arg.... toot, toot!!!!
Incedentally, aluminium panel and steel chassis dont normally some into direct contact... adhesive and chassis coating seperate them... normally.
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flyingkiwi
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| posted on 3/11/03 at 12:21 AM |
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In most cases when you rivet something together regardless of whether it be ali to ali or ali to steel you will end up with some bimetalic corrosion
due to the make up of the rivets. The easiest way to stop this happening is a libberal dosage of paint and some sealant as well. Problem solved.
As for forming the rivets. if you use ali one's your wrist will love you. Steel rivets are ok but unless protected will rust dead quick. If you
want something in between them you can use monel rivets (cheery make them and I think you can get them from pop too) which will cut down bi metalic
corrosion and form a stronger rivet than ali.
With regard to the domed or flush question, its down to personal taste as they both will work ok. A flush rivet will be flush with the surface of the
panel so with a bit of filler on it you wouldn't know it's there, on the bad side you will have to countersink the rivet to get it flush
and depending on the thickness of the material and the size of the rivet will determine whether you can use a flush, or countersink, rivet. In general
anything over about 5mm in diameter will not work with 1.8mm ali, as the countersink will form a bigger hole.
If you want I can send you a load of different types of rivets to try. I have a large amount of both countersunk and domed pop and cherry rivets, so
you can have a go at them and see what you think before forking out dosh on some rivets you don't want.
Mind you with the amount of cider I have drunk this could all be bollocks.
Give me a bell if your interested
Chris
[Edited on 3/11/03 by flyingkiwi]
It Runs!!!!! Bring on the SVA!
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 3/11/03 at 07:19 PM |
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We have a Luton body of a transit sized chassis cab at work - its used for storing old reuseable panels.
It is ally over a steel frame, and is held together with standard ally pops. The number plate is still on it, CCV567P. There is very little corrosion,
even on the steel internals, nobody ever cleans it let alone polishes it - I am not too worried about rivets!!
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Hellfire
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| posted on 4/11/03 at 02:22 AM |
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Monel...
Monel is inherantly harder and tougher than aluminium granted. One thing to bear in mind... any modifications with Monel... it is very hard when
worked, (work hardening) and extremely abrasive to drill bits, that you may use to drill them out again... just a thought
End of day - 'sup to you!
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