Mezzz
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| posted on 7/6/06 at 05:15 PM |
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How much difference is there really???
Ok Just two little questions.
How much difference is there between a R1 and a fireblade? Is it lots little or none to speak of.
And how do bike engines perform with a passenger. Is it noticeable, not much, totally rubbish kick them out at the lights, or none at all, or a add 1
sec on to the 0-60 time (for any cleaver people out there lets say there 12 stone not 20   )
Just trying to figure a few things out
P.S. Sorry for the type I did mean fireblade
[Edited on 7/6/06 by Mezzz]
[Edited on 7/6/06 by Mezzz]
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 7/6/06 at 05:20 PM |
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Having had both (I assume you mean Fireblade?), the R1 is quicker although not in a different league, but then nor is a Busa or any other stock
bike engine unless at really high speed, they are all bloody quick.
With a passenger there certainly is a noticable drop in performance, Id say an R1 with a passenger is about the same as a Blade without, you're
not talking huge amounts but at a guess maybe 0.5s over the 1/4 mile, or a few tenths to 60
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Hellfire
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| posted on 7/6/06 at 05:28 PM |
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Or do you mean a Blackbird?
DON'T GO THERE!!! Unless you have "loadsamoney".... either way - as Chris says.
Basically more cc the more you have up the top end and a flatter power band/torque curve gives better driveability.
Steve
[Edited on 7-6-06 by Hellfire]
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Mezzz
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| posted on 7/6/06 at 05:38 PM |
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And if I was top throw a ZX9R in there where would it sit?
Above R1------------Same level
Just below
Way below
Or Same as fireblade?
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ned
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| posted on 7/6/06 at 05:46 PM |
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not been in a zx9 but i know some have weak gearboxes. been in two older fireblade cars and they didn't feel as fast as i was hoping for tbh.
think the early ones were around 125-140bhp and with a passenger in the acceleration is compromised imho.
been in a carbed r1 car and was seriously impressed. a 160bhp engin iirc and was in a totally different league imho but this may have been due to the
fireblades being older model engines.
cars were/are:
isonblade when alez owned it
mk indy - shorties (2 up my vw bora was as quick at the end of the straight at brands)
jimgiblets r1 phoenix
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 7/6/06 at 06:05 PM |
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Well having previously owned both your Bora and a blade BEC, I know which one Id be quicker in at the end of the Brands straight!
I had the pleasure of following Jim down to Le Mans a couple of years ago and there wasnt a lot in it, he'd pull maybe 2-4 car lengths on me
over the course of a 30-100mph overtake but he certainly wasnt romping away so not sure why the seat of the pants dyno made it feel so much different
for you Ned
cheers
Chris
[Edited on 7/6/06 by ChrisGamlin]
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 7/6/06 at 06:11 PM |
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ZX9 seems to be a good engine, the only other slight downer with it seems to be that its significantly lower geared than a blade / R1, so really needs
a 3.1 or 3.3 diff at the very least, so rules out live axles unless you want to top out at ~110mph
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kb58
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| posted on 7/6/06 at 06:17 PM |
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The discussion of what engine's better is all fine, but at some point money should be mentioned. I think most here would grant *the* engine of
the week to have is the Hayabusa, but it comes at a price and needs a dry-sump.
While the R1/Fireblade/etc are "only" nearly as fast, at some point it doesn't really matter other than those worrying about those
last few tenth of a percent. To some it's a big deal and to others they just don't care as much. It's an entirely personal
preference and how you plan to drive your car.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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fesycresy
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| posted on 7/6/06 at 06:21 PM |
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I'd never ever consider anything by Honda. Bad, very bad. Only ever had two of them and both put me in hospital.
So from my deductions based on fact not horsepower bullshit, it has to be the R1.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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Winston Todge
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| posted on 7/6/06 at 06:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by fesycresy
I'd never ever consider anything by Honda. Bad, very bad. Only ever had two of them and both put me in hospital.
So from my deductions based on fact not horsepower bullshit, it has to be the R1.
So that R1 under the Armco didn't put you in hospital!!?
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cossey
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| posted on 7/6/06 at 06:34 PM |
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the busa is a very good engine but seriously expensive and is nearly at the stage where you could buy a new kawa 1400 and sell the rest of the bike
for the same money. the 2004+ zx10r/r1/gsxr1000 wil give a busa/zx12r a very close run but are far more peaky.
im seriously considering an invense revs turbo setup on my r1 so it starts to boost at 5000rpm and is fully up to speed by 6000rpm but then the boost
drops off back to only a couple of psi by the red line so it effectly has 190-200bhp all the way from 7500rpm-14000rpm and over 125lbft of torque at
6000rpm.
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scotlad
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| posted on 7/6/06 at 08:41 PM |
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Gimme a blade any day but then i'm biased! My old 893 was nigh on bullet proof, surviving 3500 miles of total caning and still running like a
sweetie. and 13.3 quarter mile aint bad and certainly not slow! Admittedly it ran out of puff a bit at high speed
And i've just had 1st run in indy with 954 injection fitted tonight, so doubly biased!Cant wait for a proper drive
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 7/6/06 at 08:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ned
not been in a zx9 but i know some have weak gearboxes. been in two older fireblade cars and they didn't feel as fast as i was hoping for tbh.
think the early ones were around 125-140bhp and with a passenger in the acceleration is compromised imho.
been in a carbed r1 car and was seriously impressed. a 160bhp engin iirc and was in a totally different league imho but this may have been due to the
fireblades being older model engines.
cars were/are:
isonblade when alez owned it
mk indy - shorties (2 up my vw bora was as quick at the end of the straight at brands)
jimgiblets r1 phoenix
Ned.
Ned with all due respect too Alez he never really canned the blade, I can find you some quotes from passengers that would confirm the blade is more
than capable, hicost had his hands full with it never mind a Bora........
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ned
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| posted on 8/6/06 at 07:19 AM |
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fair enough i'll take that but i'd still maintain that shortie's blade indy is a fair bit slower than jim giblets r1 phoenix when 2
up. maybe its a weight thing...
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 8/6/06 at 08:49 AM |
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I was 2 up in my r1 yesterday and all I can say is theres nothing 'Really' Noticeable
its still ballistic........
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shortie
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| posted on 8/6/06 at 10:21 AM |
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Ned,
With all due respect it was pissing down with rain!! and I was using Toyo R888's and driving the car for the first time in the wet!!
IMHO the blade is slower than Jim's R1 but mine is heavier and I find it is affected alot by having a passenger.
Anyone can drive a Bora in the rain with traction control and ABS, easy peasy
Rich.
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ned
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| posted on 8/6/06 at 10:40 AM |
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traction control was turned off in the rain thank you very much and i was referring to the sunny day you and seadog did at brands where you were
struggling to pull 105 on the straight and were being overtaken by most of the elise's. I was hitting 98ish in the wet at brands.
All i'm saying is that an indy 2 up with a full cage and you're not a small guy the car will struggle to pull top end due to lack of
torque and the power to weight must be down a fair bit with a passener as a proportion of the weight of the car.
Ned
[Edited on 8/6/06 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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shortie
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| posted on 8/6/06 at 10:51 AM |
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ah yes, but what you're forgetting my dear friend is mine will be much more affected by having 2 up than your Bora!
When you add that it was the first trackday with the car and I was taking it easy and getting used to driving a BEC on track and at least one gear
higher than I should have been in all the corners and braking very early then that's why you were near my terminal speed into paddock!
And...not sure how you worked out 98 was more than 105!
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ned
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| posted on 8/6/06 at 10:55 AM |
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if i had been in the same condition ie a dry sunny day then i'm sure i would have been nearer to 105 than i was in the wet
don't get me wrong i'm not saying the bora is quicker, hell i only took it out cos the 7 wasn't ready. I'm just trying to get
a comparison of relative speed. Jim's car is probably getting on for 100kg lighter than yours I'd guess with the lightweight brakes, small
wheels and tyres, no cage etc etc and with the extra power not suprising that its quicker.
cheers,
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Coose
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| posted on 8/6/06 at 10:56 AM |
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I was at a trackday at Teesside at the end of March in my R1 Striker and was chasing/being chased by a mate in a S2 Lotus 7 'blade. There was
nothing in it really, and the same applies on the road.
He took my car out for a spin in one of the sessions (his A-frame bush had gone, so game over) and said mine had more mid-range and a more linear
power curve.
In the real world you wouldn't notice the difference, and either would make you chuckle! I'm a massive Yamaha fan (I have several) and so
am biased, plus it's very easy to make a mechanical paddle change with the R1! 
Spin 'er off Well...
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shortie
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| posted on 8/6/06 at 10:57 AM |
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I know what you mean mate just teasing.
I def agree Jim's is quicker hence why I m thinking of changing the engine for an R1!!!
Rich.
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ned
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| posted on 8/6/06 at 10:58 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by shortie
hence why I m thinking of changing the engine for an R1!!!
Rich.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 8/6/06 at 09:12 PM |
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The only way you can really compare a blade and R1 is in the same car so everything is the same weight, same diff, same wheel sizes etc. Having done
this I can vouch that the R1 is certainly noticably quicker than the blade.
This is especially true above 80-90mph where it keeps pulling hard, whereas the blade starts to run out of puff a little by the time 100mph passes,
relatively speaking though as it will still bounce off the limiter in top quite happily along a comparatively short straight.
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dilley
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| posted on 11/6/06 at 05:20 PM |
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So, people slate the blackbird, if you put a dry sump on it, and dont take cost into consideration whats wrong with the bird??
probablyas fast as a busa and zx12,
ive driven mine flat out everywhere with no probs,
2 up makes a hell of a difference, at the end of the day its around 90 kg heavier even a tin top is different with a passenger.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 11/6/06 at 09:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by dilley
So, people slate the blackbird, if you put a dry sump on it, and dont take cost into consideration whats wrong with the bird??
probablyas fast as a busa and zx12,
ive driven mine flat out everywhere with no probs.
Nothing really wrong with it in isolation IMHO, but I think you've answered your own question really, its not that popular because everyone does
take cost into consideration one way or other.
It isnt quite as quick as a 'busa or ZX12 so can't really be looked at as a cheap way to busa performance, and when you step down a rung
you get pretty much equal performance from an R1 which is a lot cheaper to install as it doesnt need dry sumping, and is also 20+kgs lighter. Still a
good engine though if you dont mind dry sumping.
cheers
Chris
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