Oliver Coles
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| posted on 4/10/06 at 03:34 PM |
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Bio- fuel on fifth gear
On this weeks fifth gear, they ran a old merc diesel without any modifications on used cooking oil. Can you just fill a diesel up with raw filltered
cooking oil and expect not to be broken in a weeks time?
Only 16 and i have already had my midlife crisis
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StevieB
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| posted on 4/10/06 at 03:40 PM |
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You try it and we'll all take notes 
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cct7kitcars
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| posted on 4/10/06 at 03:59 PM |
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its best to mix a bit of fuel with it to thin it out but i run my land rover all the time from my mate chippy on have not had a days prob with it
joe
cct7kitcars
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
sideways, Chardonnay in one hand, Tequila in the other, body bearing battle scars and totally worn out, screaming- WOO HOO!! What a Ride!
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daviep
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| posted on 4/10/06 at 04:03 PM |
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I've run my diesel fiesta on a few different concotions, straight veg oil, straight veg oil + white spirit, proper converted bio diesel and the
roughest, used safety kleen straight out the machine!!
You probably won't have any problem running straight veg oil in engines fitted with bosch rotary fuel injection pumps but beware lucas pumps
may break the pump drive shaft. The other problem is the fuel system may draw air due to the higher vacuum caused by the thick veg oil. Starting can
also be a little harder especially in the cold.
[Edited on 4/10/06 by daviep]
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smart51
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| posted on 4/10/06 at 04:14 PM |
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Diesel engines will burn almost anything if set up right. The problem with veg oil (as opposed to biodiesel) is that some fuel pumps and fuel
injectors don't like it. It isn't as lubricating as mineral diesel and it is too thick. To convert it to biodiesel properly, you have to
remove the glycerine and add a bit of solvent.
I'm led to believe that older diesel cars are more suited to veg oil than modern high tech engines.
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Guinness
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| posted on 4/10/06 at 04:16 PM |
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I know someone who runs their turbo diesel BMW on 100% cooking oil. He loves it!
Does take a bit of churning to get it going, but once it's running it seems ok. No big clouds of black smoke, but it does smell different!
Mike
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 4/10/06 at 04:16 PM |
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I'm running my Hi-Lux on V100 Bio-Fuel. Duty has been paid so all legal. I am running on 100% V100 but have been advised that an in-line heater
or heated fuel filter may be necessary during the cold months. Starting is instantaneous and it actually runs quieter on the Bio-Fuel. I have just had
it MOTd and there were no problems with emissions.
My daughter has a 405 turbo diesel fitted with a Lucas pump. The Lucas pump will only handle a 50% mix of Bio and pump fuel but as has been said,
Bosch pumps can cope with 100%. The Peugeot has a heated filter so no additional fuel heating is necessary.
I am considering buying a plant to make my own genuine Bio diesel as opposed to V100 which is not Bio Diesel. This can be done quite legally by making
a return to Customs and Excise in a similar way to a VAT return. Depending on the cost of the raw cooking oil, costs are in the region of £0.50/litre.
It is a very simple process and not that labout intensive.
John
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coozer
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| posted on 4/10/06 at 06:24 PM |
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quote:
To convert it to biodiesel properly, you have to remove the glycerine and add a bit of solvent.
I'm led to believe that older diesel cars are more suited to veg oil than modern high tech engines.
STOP! Biodisesl is not as described above and has no solvent in it. Yes, you remove the glycerine but that is through a chemical conversion process.
Glycerine is purely the byproduct of the conversion process.Text
[Edited on 4/10/06 by coozer]
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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lotustwincam
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| posted on 4/10/06 at 06:33 PM |
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I've always been a bit curious why people don't just use home heating oil.
As far as I can see it appears to be clear (no red dye). Perhaps it is identifyable by some other means by HM C&E?
Anyone care to fill me in?
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Peteff
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| posted on 4/10/06 at 06:51 PM |
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Same old same old.....
Top Gear did it with the same car a couple of series back under AA supervision. A teaspoon of white spirit in a litre of cooking oil was the recipe
they used I think and it makes them smell like a donut stand.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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daviep
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| posted on 4/10/06 at 09:02 PM |
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Making proper bio diesel in any amount is both time consuming and a bit hard on the electric bill as to make it in any kind of timescale involves
heating it for a long time.
Not that I'm crooked but if you want to run on kerosene (heating oil) it is best to mix in a little 2 stroke oil to provide lubrication for
the injection pump something like 50:1
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 4/10/06 at 10:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by lotustwincam
I've always been a bit curious why people don't just use home heating oil.
A cousin of mine used to run his Citroen ZX TD out of his parents central heating oil tank when he was skint (most of the time).
Was still going with 160k on the clock, but had developed quite a bad white smoke problem when cold, which may have been nothing to do with the fuel.
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JackNco
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| posted on 5/10/06 at 12:39 AM |
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ive herd you can run it with just a dash of thiners. although your MEANT to give the tax man some thinks like 27p a liter for it, or so it said on a
show i saw a few years ago on it
John
Some people are worried about the difference between right and wrong. I'm worried about the difference between wrong and fun.
O'Rourke, P.J. (1989), Holidays in hell. London (Picador)
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smart51
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| posted on 5/10/06 at 07:16 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by lotustwincam
I've always been a bit curious why people don't just use home heating oil.
Heating oil is heavier than diesel. It is sometimes called diesel oil no. 2. It waxes at higher temperature than diesel and I don't know how
well it injects.
That said, diesel engines can be designed to run on anything, including coal dust and powdered algae. I'm sure you could make and engine
run on heating oil.
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JoelP
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| posted on 5/10/06 at 09:07 AM |
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the top gear show is on one of the online video hosts, cant remember which though. Makes good viewing.
They described it as filtered used veg oil (3p per litre) with 3% 'non kerosine based white spirits', as the tax man doesnt like us using
aircraft based fuel i guess...
I would be paranoid about the long term build up of deposits in the fuel system, though im sure with research it could be sorted out.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 5/10/06 at 11:15 AM |
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Did the programme mention what happens to drivers when they get caught using untaxed fuel?
In the last case I heard about, the driver had to pay the government a sum of tax estimated by Customs and Excise  and there's a significant
risk of getting your car crushed, dependant upon how much they consider that you were taking the pee.
Incidentally, the driver was caught because his exhaust smelt of chips!
[Edited on 5/10/06 by David Jenkins]
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Oliver Coles
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| posted on 5/10/06 at 03:31 PM |
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I ve got a freind who runs a 1950s feguson tractor on an obsolete fuel called TPO or central heating oil as he says. He says that any petrol engine
car can run on it so long as you increace the compression ratio to something like 4 to 1.
Its quite down on power though as it generates 28hp from a 2.2 engine.
pitty
Only 16 and i have already had my midlife crisis
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JoelP
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| posted on 5/10/06 at 03:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Did the programme mention what happens to drivers when they get caught using untaxed fuel?
yes, and they explained quite clearly how to go about paying the duty, resulting cost being around 28p/litre. 
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Ian Pearson
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| posted on 6/10/06 at 10:28 AM |
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I’ve converted my Toyota Landcruiser to a dual tank/fuel system. From What I’ve read, running your car on viscous straight vegetable oil (SVO) can
cause damage to both the fuel pump and injectors. The conversion I’ve installed uses a heat exchanger to heat the SVO, reducing it’s viscosity to a
point where it is easier to pump. I start the car on diesel, and once it’s up to normal running temperature, I then switch over to SVO. The engine
runs more quietly than on diesel, due to the better lubrication properties of the SVO, but I will have to change the oil more regularly, as the SVO
can contaminate the sump oil. There is plenty of info on the web, and the DIESELVEG site is a good starter.
The duty payable on SVO is 47.1p/liter, not 27p as most web sites suggest.
Heating oil can be used, as can Jet A1, but they do need oil to be added for lubrication. Heating oil, like red diesel, has a marker added to it that
cannot be removed by filtration etc.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 6/10/06 at 11:21 AM |
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Ive just been loaned a BMW X3 for a while. 2.0D. When i filled up the other day i noticed the cap had a symbol on it basically saying dont use Bio
diesel. Does this mean all bio's or just certain types? Just adding this in case someone chucks some veg oil in their new car and has a
problem.
A mate of mine has tried manufacturing diesel from old cooking oil before. He runs a transport company. Duty paid and all fully legal. Trucks ran
great on it and reported improved economy. Only issue they had (iirc) is if the old oil has some animal based oil in it. You need to get the old oil
from a reputable source etc to avoid this. He used his bio diesel in his Merc 270, 50/50 with pump diesel and noticed no difference. I was going to
try it but as above BMW warn against this so didnt want to risk a big repair bill.
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