phil T5
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| posted on 5/5/07 at 11:45 PM |
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200 HP Car or Bike Engine
I'm in process of figuring out whether to go BEC or CEC.
My problem is I can't seem to find anwhere that supply full engine, gearbox and ancillaries for a car engine for anywhere near the 3-4K I want
to spend.
I can get a bike engine up to around 180HP e.g. ZX10R for around 2 K which obviously includes box.
Anyone know any good engine suppliers tuner that can offer car engine to 200HP or so for this amount and allow enough for box etc.
I want to use car for road trips, often 2 up, and some track days and call me mad but 150HP seems like too little.
Iv'e been 2 up in a fireblade BEC and whilst quickish I feel I want more!
Im used to 310HP and 340 ft/Ibs in my much heavier modded T5 but even this will run a mid 14 std qtr and if Im going to build the car I want quite a
bit quicker than this.
Any recommendations
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RK
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| posted on 6/5/07 at 01:12 AM |
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I haven't got any idea really, but have you tried a turbo MX5? There must be one somewhere for that price, with a box. Does a Cosworth Zetec
cost that much?
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graememk
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| posted on 6/5/07 at 06:13 AM |
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nissan 200sx
very tunable and well over 200bhp
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snapper
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| posted on 6/5/07 at 06:31 AM |
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Zetec is cheap and with throttle bodies and cams will go to 200, Duratec, more expensive but tunable 250 to 300 and as for a box, Cossie T5 will cope
with the torque and the horsepower. With a bit of carefull buying you could save a grand or two and that would buy a lot of horsepower or other
gizzits.
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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imp paul
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| posted on 6/5/07 at 08:06 AM |
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try a honda s 2000 engine
hi you could try a 200bhp Honda type r engine or s2000 lots of fun and lots of tuning stuff out there for them good for 450bhp if you have the pennys
good luck with the build paul
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smart51
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| posted on 6/5/07 at 08:55 AM |
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Kawasaki ZX14 makes 190 BHP in stock form. Add a straight through exhaust and you'll be close. A bit of work with a power commander and you
should easily brake 200.
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Grahame L
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| posted on 6/5/07 at 09:39 AM |
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If you install any of the sports 1000 bike engines from 2000 onwards your going to get good power, this equates to a 13 dead on the quarter. Add a
passenger and you noitice the difference, go up to zx12, busa etc you are getting mid 12 sec on the quarter, do you want more? On the mk drag day last
year someone had a 200sx turbo giving 300 bhp and he was doing low 12's but had too much power to get down on the start.
It all depends what you want and the money you have. If i were to build another i would go for either high torque bike engine, or something like a
rx7 motor, high revs low relative weight. However, pound for pound bike engines will give you more grins.
Grahame
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Hellfire
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| posted on 6/5/07 at 09:51 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by phil T5
I'm in process of figuring out whether to go BEC or CEC.
My problem is I can't seem to find anwhere that supply full engine, gearbox and ancillaries for a car engine for anywhere near the 3-4K I want
to spend.
I can get a bike engine up to around 180HP e.g. ZX10R for around 2 K which obviously includes box.
Anyone know any good engine suppliers tuner that can offer car engine to 200HP or so for this amount and allow enough for box etc.
I want to use car for road trips, often 2 up, and some track days and call me mad but 150HP seems like too little.
Iv'e been 2 up in a fireblade BEC and whilst quickish I feel I want more!
Im used to 310HP and 340 ft/Ibs in my much heavier modded T5 but even this will run a mid 14 std qtr and if Im going to build the car I want quite a
bit quicker than this.
Any recommendations
Phil,
Even 310bhp in a Volvo T5 weighing in at well over a tonne is less than 300bhp/tonne. It's got nothing to do with power/speed it's how
it's put down... with all due respect 2 up in a Blade BEC is gonna feel substantially slower when compared to only 1 up. Even a one up Blade BEC
should equate to more bhp.tonne than your T5. Let's not forget the FWD/RWD arguement... any se7en would outperform/handle your T5 on
twisties.
IIWY - in respect of you going two up, get a CEC as Graeme said Nissan 200SX but you will pay for the privaledge of that power, so your budget will
likely not be high enough.
Our ZX12R - 2up feels slow when compared to 1up. Even though the torque is there (for a BEC) it's nothing compared to a CEC.
Go for a CEC - then when your bored with it, change it for a BEC at your cost. You know you want to go BEC, so start with that intention! 
Steve
[Edited on 6-5-07 by Hellfire]
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procomp
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| posted on 6/5/07 at 10:10 AM |
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HI zetec engine 2.0L whith cams and bike carbs = 200 bhp easy. Used type9 strait cut box Ie quaif/tranex (will take 260 bhp). Either a proper ECU ie
webber/omex/dta/emerald or a home built mega watsit. Easily doable for under £3500 And puts it on a par with a tuned busa.
cheers matt
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AlphaX
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| posted on 6/5/07 at 10:13 AM |
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how about the audi 1.8t? standard from 180-225 bhp but with only a different mapping you can do 265bhp at 5500rpm and 340Nm at 1800-5500rpm
plenty engines available, rear-wheel drive fit and good power.
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rav
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| posted on 6/5/07 at 10:50 AM |
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£3500 on an engine and box? I thought this was a locost car builders forum?!
If its only 200-250bhp you're looking for (which will give you about 300-380 bhp/tonne in a CEC, and willbe far quicker than a modded T5), then
there are many standard engine and box combo's to choose from without going down the expensive 'custom build' route.
eg:
Any of the relatively modern big V6's. Mostly 190-250bhp in standard NA form, can be bought for a few hundred quid with all the ancillaries,
wiring etc and lowish milage
A turbo 4-pot eg Mitsi evo, cosworth YB, 200sx etc. Easy to increase boost to get 250+ bhp, but engines are in higher demand so fetch more second
hand.
Mazda rotary?
A modern flashy bells n whistles engine eg S2000, Honda VTEC Toyota VVTi etc
You could easily spend £3500 having something like a Zetec built up with stronger internals, throttle bodies, aftermarket ECU, then add a quife
gearkit for a type 9 etc etc, but will it actually be any better than a completely standard engine & box costing less than a grand which had that
sort of power in the first place?
There's plenty of cheap plentiful RWD gearboxes which will handle that sort of torque too, MT75 being the most obvious one.
If uncle Ron were dead he'd be turning in his grave!! 
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 6/5/07 at 11:14 AM |
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As said there are quite alot of standard engines that should be up near the 200BHP mark and be reasonably cheap and very reliable.
I should imagine a Vauxhall XE engine with a bit of work and some cams and Throttle bodies should see you near the 200 BHP mark, or there's
always the LET engine that should be well over 200bhp easily.
The XE certainly has adapterplates made for it upto the ford gearboxes and the LET should have as well, or there are older Vauxhall gearboxes that can
be used.
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ghuncha
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| posted on 6/5/07 at 12:50 PM |
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as some one has said it earlier also , i will recommend Honda s-2000 engine. my idea is that one should get the closest one can get to hp wanted as
stock....
and as the 2 liter 00~-3 version s2k has 9k+ reline, i think it will be much quicker than any turbo charged engine having same hp.
thanks
[Edited on 6/5/07 by ghuncha]
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 6/5/07 at 12:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rav
£3500 on an engine and box? I thought this was a locost car builders forum?!
I think Locostbuilders has come a long way since the days when the forum was solely for people building cars from scratch on tiny budgets!
[Edited on 6/5/07 by ChrisGamlin]
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arrybradbury
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| posted on 6/5/07 at 03:44 PM |
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I seem to remember the guy with the viper engine paying ~7k for his engine  ...........
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chriscook
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| posted on 6/5/07 at 05:28 PM |
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A standard (internally) vauxhall XE will give 180bhp once on carbs/throttlre bodies. A pair of cams will get you easily over 200hp and be well within
your budget.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 7/5/07 at 07:58 AM |
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Well, I'm running an internally standard vauxhall XE engine, 176hp @ wheels, 204 hp @ flywheel, cost £200 for the engine and £600 for the
throttle body injection (MBE ecu and Jenvey bodies, s/h) plus home made 4-2-1 exhaust manifold.
The same engine in my grasser made the same power too, no turbos, no different cams etc etc.
200hp on a completely std Vauxhall XE is no problem, one day somebody on here will wake up to it!!!! (well to be fair a few have already.)
PS they always seem to top out at 180hp on carbs but 200hp on throttle bodies, its very odd but that's what they always make on the rolling
road/dyno. Theoretically it should make no difference so I've no idea why!
Car weighed in at 570kg with all the sva crap and a full tank of fuel, so is around 360 hp per tonne.
Total build cost of the car was approx £5500
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 7/5/07 at 08:43 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Well, I'm running an internally standard vauxhall XE engine, 176hp @ wheels, 204 hp @ flywheel, cost £200 for the engine and £600 for the
throttle body injection (MBE ecu and Jenvey bodies, s/h) plus home made 4-2-1 exhaust manifold.
The same engine in my grasser made the same power too, no turbos, no different cams etc etc.
200hp on a completely std Vauxhall XE is no problem, one day somebody on here will wake up to it!!!! (well to be fair a few have already.)
PS they always seem to top out at 180hp on carbs but 200hp on throttle bodies, its very odd but that's what they always make on the rolling
road/dyno. Theoretically it should make no difference so I've no idea why!
Car weighed in at 570kg with all the sva crap and a full tank of fuel, so is around 360 hp per tonne.
Total build cost of the car was approx £5500
No need too convert me, every time anyone asks which CEC engine I give the std answer....
Red top VX.
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martyn_16v
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| posted on 7/5/07 at 08:44 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
PS they always seem to top out at 180hp on carbs but 200hp on throttle bodies, its very odd but that's what they always make on the rolling
road/dyno. Theoretically it should make no difference so I've no idea why!
TB's don't have chokes in them blocking flow, so a tb will be a fair bit freer flowing than a similarly sized carb. Does seem to be a
strangely large difference though...
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chriscook
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| posted on 7/5/07 at 04:26 PM |
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Well when I get mine on some rollers I'll let you know how I get on.
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MustangSix
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| posted on 7/5/07 at 07:29 PM |
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Probably not commonly available in the UK, but here in the States the alloy block Camaro/Firebird LS1 V8 complete with a T-56 six speed can be had for
around $3000. It is easily 300hp off-the-shelf and can be tweaked to over 400 hp with only a little work. Total overkill for a Locost......
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DarrenW
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| posted on 8/5/07 at 10:12 AM |
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you only need 150bhp in a std 600kg CEC to have the same power to weight as a BMW M3. Might need to spend some cash on gearing and tyres etc to imrove
0-60 acceleration.
180bhp and decent gearing / tyres will see you faster than most super saloons and all doable for well under your budget. ie half decent zetec etc.
Going lightweight with similarly powered BEC will easily see 4 sec to 60 acceleration if not better.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 8/5/07 at 11:57 AM |
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Exactly right darren!
I guess this thread really won't result in any argument or debate, as for £3-3.5K engine budget you can have a pretty potent car, be it BEC or
CEC.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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NS Dev
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| posted on 8/5/07 at 12:12 PM |
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..........................................In fact, all this just made me take a peek at the carfolio site for the latest cateringvan
specs.............................
Caterham CSR 200, 04 spec, weighs 570kg (exactly the same as my locost) 200hp (my VX powered one makes the same within a couple of hp) and 165lbft of
torque (mine made 168lbft)..................................................
interesting as this is comparing a dry sumped fandango Duratec against a £200, 1992 vintage ex calibra 78,000 mile XE
engine.................................................................
VIVA LOCOST
(PS I know the CSR is an awesome car, don't take this the wrong way, just saying that performance per pound the locost ain't bad! )
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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akumabito
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| posted on 8/5/07 at 12:38 PM |
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Just increase your budget a tad...
Linky 1
Linky 2
Linky 3
You know you want to!
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