nick205
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 posted on 28/6/07 at 12:01 PM |
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Peugeot 309 GTI 4x4 - does it exist?
I'm currently researching for a new project. The aim is to create a Pug 205 GTI 4x4. The idea is to use the Mi16 engine and 4x4 transmission
from a 405 Mi16 4x4. The benefits being that the front of the car remains standard leaving me to concentrate on modifying the floor to take a
transmission tunnel and the rear to accept the 405 4x4 rear subframe and diff etc.
Whilst digging around on the net I came across these images which seem to suggest that the 309 GTI may have been produced in 4x4 form.
Question - has anyone every heard of or seen such a car?
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nick205
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| posted on 28/6/07 at 12:02 PM |
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Where's the attach image feature gone then ????
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twybrow
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| posted on 28/6/07 at 12:14 PM |
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Only the rally cars I think... The only production 4x4 was the 405. Have a scout on 205drivers forum. I am sure the 205 MI16 4x4 has been done
before. I think it will be quite a squeeze!
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TGR-ECOSSE
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| posted on 28/6/07 at 01:03 PM |
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I have been around peugeots for a while and can't recall a 309 4x4. The 205 4x4 should be an easy conversion but is the 405 back end not a bit
wider than a 205?
Ronnie
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nick205
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| posted on 28/6/07 at 01:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by TGR-ECOSSE
I have been around peugeots for a while and can't recall a 309 4x4. The 205 4x4 should be an easy conversion but is the 405 back end not a bit
wider than a 205?
Ronnie
I think the 405 rear beam is the sme width as the 309 beam. In which case it shouldn't be too difficult to transfer to 205 body shell.
It's quite popular for the rally boys to fit out 205s with 309 front and rear suspension set-ups to widen the track.
One problem will be the actual suspension set-up which on the 405 appears to be hydraulic self levelling a la Citroen.
The research goes on....
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awinter
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| posted on 28/6/07 at 01:42 PM |
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defo not a production 4x4 309.
309 production GTi16 was only available in lefthand drive.
To convert the 205 to 4x4 using 405 parts will need the 405 4x4 gearbox and transfer box. 405 4x4 rear subframe etc.
The 405 Mi16 engine was also slightly different as it had a mounting point for the transferbox. The bottom engine mount is also modified to mount the
transfer box.
A mate started this project a while back, the rear track of the 405 is also wider. The rear also has some hydraulics on the axel to level ride
height.
Might be easier to do in a 309 overall as there is a little more room.
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nick205
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| posted on 28/6/07 at 02:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by awinter
Might be easier to do in a 309 overall as there is a little more room.
You're probably right, but the 309 just doesn't have the same emotional draw as the 205 for me. Plus it's a fugly old boot next to
the rather pert 205 
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TGR-ECOSSE
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| posted on 28/6/07 at 02:41 PM |
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I have had 205's 306's 309's and 405's and i still like 205 the best and I have just got another one. Its a 1.1 style that i
couldn't resist it as it was cheap m.o.t'ed and taxed. Its already got an early gti interior in it but dont think i will do any more to
it. You got me thinking about the 4x4. I think there was a citroen bx 4x4 and thats the same back axle as the 405 with the hydraulic suspension.
Could you not just fit coilovers on the back. Heres a pic of my 205 toy.
[Edited on 28/6/07 by TGR-ECOSSE]
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nick205
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| posted on 28/6/07 at 03:26 PM |
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I think the rear suspension would be pretty easy to sort with coil overs - would probably save a little weight too.
The other option would be to go for a custom design rear subframe as an integral part of the roll cage and use a De Dion or possibly even IRS set-up.
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nick205
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| posted on 28/6/07 at 03:50 PM |
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Pictures.....
 
Pug 4x4 CAD model
 
309 GTI 4x4 underside
 
309 GTI 4x4 transmission
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minordelay
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| posted on 28/6/07 at 04:07 PM |
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The pic from underneath looks longer like it could be a 309. With the rear suspension sorted it would be an interesting project. Parts must be hard to
find now!
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damien
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| posted on 28/6/07 at 04:49 PM |
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peugeot never sold a 4x4 309 but...
i know of 3 dimma 309 4x4 that are on the 205drivers forum and the peugeot sports club forum.
theres a 405 4x4 for sale on the 205 drivers forum, i think he wants £900ish for it, im going to have a look at it this weekend at
"pugfest" as i think it would make a great tow car.
here is my baby
[Edited on 28/6/07 by damien]
Topaz gti6-tb 205 Gti (ph1.5)
Sigma 2.0 8v 306 XSI (ph1)
Provence 1.9 8v dturbo (ph2)
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TimC
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| posted on 28/6/07 at 05:24 PM |
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Definately not - I was once something of a 309 enthusiast having owned three. If there was one, I'd have probably bought one at some point.
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rusty
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| posted on 28/6/07 at 06:39 PM |
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My mate had a citron BX 4x4 16V on twin 40's and that was a crazy machine.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 28/6/07 at 06:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick205
309 GTI 4x4 underside
That's a very long propshaft for a one piece unit!
Actualy, it looks like some kind of torque tube arrangement, I guess there may be an intermediate bearing in the tube to support the prop?
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tom_loughlin
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| posted on 28/6/07 at 07:54 PM |
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Thats strange,
I have a 1.9 Mi16x4 sitting here, and a good 205 GTi (on the road) and an immaculate sorrento car with full leather.
I was going to 4wd the Sorrento car, and put a 406 SRi lump in it...Appartently they are tons better than the Mi16 engine.
The Mi16x4 is an awesome piece of kit in itself, but it is getting hard to find one with an entact drivetrain now.
My project hasn't really strarted yet...spent a month getting the 405 looking good instead and on the road.
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akumabito
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| posted on 28/6/07 at 08:05 PM |
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A 4WD 205 would be s much fun 
The little GTI's are already a hoot to drive.. would be awesome with 4WD and some extra HP..
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awinter
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| posted on 29/6/07 at 04:19 PM |
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Had 2 309s, 1 standard 8v in silver. The second was a 1.9mi16 runnung twin delorto 45s and the pug six speed box. 159bhp at the wheels with a quaife
ATB diff. was quick to 60 but 3rd and 4th being shorter than the 5 speed got it to a ton in about 16 seconds. 1/4 ran a 14.9 on my first ever run.
Never did better it on the next 3 runs. I was not brutal enough with the clutch as it was my daily driver.
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awinter
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| posted on 29/6/07 at 04:25 PM |
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I belive the early 406 Sri was a 150bhp turbo engine. later I think they were a 2.2 160bhp NA. Mi16 is still the way to go for power but plan on a
couple of bottom end rebuilds.
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damien
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| posted on 30/6/07 at 05:45 AM |
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found some information on the 205 forum -
evening all.
well progress has been on the slow side im sad to say, mainly due to work commitments, and a nagging girlfriend taking all my time.
for those that dont know the car........
1990 309 dimma
started life as a 309 style. a year after its birth it was completely transformed into something a lil different by dimma uk.
spec
1.9 405 mi16 engine
complete 4x4 running gear from a 405 mi16x4
405 mi16x4 uprated suspension, still using the hydraulic rear axle system
full 309 dimma kit
strenthened engine bay and boot floor
transmission tunnel
dimma split rims
full leather interier with dimma embroded into the seats
the list goes on........
heres how it was when i bought it
what needs doing.....
i bought the car off henry yorkes brother. he didnt have the time to restore her to its glory so decided to sell on.
bottom end was starting to go, slight rattling
engine bay had corrosion on the inner wings, had also been covered in underseal on the inner wings
paint job starting to show its age, laquer peeling around the roof channels etc etc
what been done so far......
i have aqquired and rebuilt another 405 mi16 engine, piston rings, shells head skim etc etc, all carried out by myself and mark of fastpug autos.
then came the engine bay... ive cut out the rust patch in the inner wing, repaired/welded a new piece in place. then came the removal of all the
underseal on the inner wings, this was a time consuming job in itself. once this was done ive skimed over the inner wings to smooth them with some
filler. spent some hours prepping the bay ready to paint. and have now painted the engine bay in escort cosworth imperiel blue.
the car was originally white, and i intended to do her white, but ive had a change of heart 
whats left to do.......
currently the engine is being dry stored in my lock up, im waiing for the works van to come back on site this week, so i can fetch the engine and all
ancilleries and build it up in my garage at home with heat, electric, light tea making facilities. i intend on building it all uip onto the subframe,
bolt on the shafts hubs struts and wheels and then pick it up from my house with the recovery truck and take it to work anf get it fitted.
over the rest of the winter i shall be making a start on sorting the bodywork, ready to prep and paint.
pics below..........
rebuild pics
engine bay pics
views and opinions welcome.
adam
Topaz gti6-tb 205 Gti (ph1.5)
Sigma 2.0 8v 306 XSI (ph1)
Provence 1.9 8v dturbo (ph2)
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t.j.
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| posted on 30/6/07 at 06:48 AM |
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http://membres.lycos.fr/cit43/Autoshorsserie_2/Peugeot_309_Dangel.htm
As far i can see it's Henri Dangel (sentheim France) who did it for rallye purpose, so not orginal Peug.
[Edited on 30/6/07 by t.j.]
Please feel free to correct my bad English, i'm still learning. Your Dutch is awfull! :-)
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 30/6/07 at 08:51 AM |
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If it fits a 205, it will fit a 309, they are the same basic shell with extension plates to extend the chassiss, even the doors are interchangeable
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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awinter
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| posted on 1/7/07 at 09:49 PM |
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Always did like the dimma 309, try some BX clocks, much prettier than the pug items and they are almost a straight swap.
I know Henry and rote an article for Torque once.
Allan
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