02GF74
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 posted on 20/11/07 at 03:26 PM |
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SORN - am I missing the point?
There is nothing to stop me from driving an untaxed car so what is the point of SORN?
Other than creating inconveninence and raising cash form those who end up not renewing SORN.
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Guinness
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 03:31 PM |
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In theory, ANPR (Automatic number plate recognition cameras).
Deployed by the DVLA, usually a small van parked in a lay by, on a bridge, with two / three cameras on tripods focused on each lane. That has a link
to the 'puter at Swansea, which flags up any cars that pass through that are declared SORN / on a wanted list / not taxed etc.
Waiting in the next lay by / slip road, two or three cop cars, plus motorbikes. These guys are then supposed to stop anyone that the 'puter
flags up.
Also, traffic wardens can issue tickets when you are parked up on the street.
But you can go months without seeing any of the above. Also bear in mind that if you have an accident, and it's not taxed, they'll throw
proverbial book at you.
Sorry
Mike
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Hellfire
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 03:33 PM |
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It is illegal to drive a vehicle without a tax disc on the public highway is it not?
Phil
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02GF74
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 03:38 PM |
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APNR - fine but when asked if a car is taxed, the computer says no . It knows the car is not taxed regardless if a SORN was declared.
so my question still stands what is the point?
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britishtrident
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 03:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
It is illegal to drive a vehicle without a tax disc on the public highway is it not?
Phil
Last time I look except for going to MOT or SVA
I have been told that in Denmark you can buy the equivalent of a single day trade plate that includes insurance to move vehicles that aren't
taxed.
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donut
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 03:42 PM |
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It is illegal to drive a vehicle without a tax disc and negates your insurance etc.
Why are you even asking? If you get hit by someone who had no car tax therefore no insurance and you lost your car you would be pretty peeved i
guess!! unless your insurance was fully comp and covered being hit by an uninsured driver.
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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donut
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 03:43 PM |
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quote:
I have been told that in Denmark you can buy the equivalent of a single day trade plate that includes insurance to move vehicles that aren't
taxed.
What a good idea, that would save alot of hassle going to SVA etc
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 03:44 PM |
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SORN doesn't actually help in the slightest with catching vehicles on the road without tax using ANPR as they just check whether each vehicle
that is scanned has valid tax.
It does however remove the defence of 'I forgot' if you are caught without tax. It also keeps DVLA's database more up to date as it
prevents vehicles 'disappearing off the radar' when they get put in long-term storage or are undergoing restoration. Not sure if there are
any other benefits to DVLA.
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 03:49 PM |
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He;s right.
If they have the detection equipment then why don't they use it?
Rather than making US do THERE paperwork for them.
If you don't have insurance on your car you dont have to fill in some stupid form to say you don't insurance do you. And you definatly
dont get a fine for not sending a piece of paper back with that written on it to the insurance company/government.
Agree it is a waste of time, and another annoyance.
Think everyone else missed the point - he wasn;t suggesting driving without tax, he was asking whats the point of sorn.
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sammy
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 03:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt_claydon
..... Not sure if there are any other benefits to DVLA.
A 40 quid fine if you forget to SORN your race bike that has not been on the road for the last two years. 
Build diaries...
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britishtrident
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 03:51 PM |
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Whole system was tightened up because it didn't work at all, Not because of sellers not recording change of ownerships with the DVLA butDVLA
were very slack about recording change of ownership slips.
Now the system dosen't have any slack in it at all, which is a bit too much.
But it is very predictable I can tell you where my local DVLA stingray van will be on which day of the month.
Ironically the local DVLA Stingray van for months wasn't roadworthy it had lighting faults --- appart from that I see it frequently being
driven pretty dangerously with no reghard to other road users.
[Edited on 20/11/07 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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ned
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 03:57 PM |
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I wouldn't last 5 mins without tax - I see a vosa van with camera on the roof bar at least once or twice a week now.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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wilkingj
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 04:04 PM |
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None of you have mentioned the Mobile ANPR cameras fitted to the traffic cars. They are the ones set at a slight angle on the back roof of traffic
cars. (so they scan both sides of the road). They also have forward facing ones as well (ie two cams)
SORN was done to clean up the DVLA database.
There were millions of registered cars that are scrapped and not notified, or are not on the road, or dont even exist at all.
In a couple of years time the DVLA have to meet some EU regs / conformity or similar. Hence they are cleansing their database as best they can.
I cant see the problem with Sorn... You car is either Taxed or SORN'd.
Anything else and its an £80 fine through the post.
If people cant be arsed to inform the authorities of the correct status iof their vehicles, what do you expect them to do?
It helps them have better records.
You are right when you say there is nothing to stop you driving on the road without tax etc etc. But as already mentioned by others, I would NOT be
happy if you hit my car, or ran over my son etc.
Also dont forget that now the MoT and insurance is also all Computerised, the ANPR camera's will check that as well as it being stolen, or on
the "most wanted" list for terrorism, drug dealing etc etc.
Personally I think its a good thing. Mostly its only Idiots and criminals who drive without the correct documents and who have not paid their Tax
etc. The quicker they are caught and removed from the road the better.
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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Hellfire
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 04:09 PM |
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Ahh, I see where you're coming from now 
I believe the theory behind SORN is that lots of people were month-skipping on tax. Tax disc expires at the end of March, new tax disc purchased at
the start of May. Reason for skipping a months tax was that the car was off the road having some repairs done and a lot of revenue was lost because of
this. I guess SORN was introduced in an attempt to put a stop to this.
Maybe it's not an ideal system but it's certainly better than what they had previously.
Phil
[Edited on 20-11-07 by Hellfire]
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pewe
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 04:14 PM |
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Simple really:-
1) It's taxed.
or 2) It's SORN
or 3) It's illegal.
Means there are no grey areas like "it's in the post", "forgot" etc. Also because it's computerised it takes
under 5 mins. to do it on-line so no excuses there.
Not only fixed camera vans but most traffic cars have OCR tech. as my son found out when he drove 5 miles to the MOT station and was pulled by an
unmarked car.
Issued him an invitation - no prob there as test had been pre-booked and the rest was in order.
I'm all in favour if it means scrotes driving untaxed cars get pulled because they are more likely to be un-insured and will hit & run
rather than stop.
Perhaps the powers-that-be should concentrate on un-taxed, un-insured cars rather than ineffective (in terms of road safety) speed cameras. See this
link http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=17189
Cheers, Pewe
[Edited on 20/11/07 by pewe]
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 04:41 PM |
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I believe that cars which were laid up before SORN and still at present untaxed are not subject to a fine. I'd be glad if that could be
confirmed or otherwise.
John
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Coose
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 04:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by John Bonnett
I believe that cars which were laid up before SORN and still at present untaxed are not subject to a fine. I'd be glad if that could be
confirmed or otherwise.
John
That's correct. I have a KTM supermoto that I built in the early 90s and road registered, but it hasn't been on the road since '93.
I don't get a SORN reminder for it and I won't unless I tax it again.
Spin 'er off Well...
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PhilCross66
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 05:44 PM |
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Just wanted to add having no tax doesn't mean you aren't insured, unless things have changed recently.
I've been knocked off a bike I had only just bought, had insurance and mot but no tax, still got fully paid out by other drivers insurance.
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bj928
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 06:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pewe
Simple really:-
1) It's taxed.
or 2) It's SORN
or 3) It's illegal.
or 4) in trade, if a car/van/bike is with a trader it doesn't need to be sorn when tax runs out, i buy and sell a number of cars a year, never
yet got a fine and never yet sorn an untaxed vehicle, saves a lot of hassle, when i buy a car i keep the v5 and the seller sends off the bit to say
the car was sold to a dealer,
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JohnN
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 07:52 PM |
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Yes, you're definately missing the point
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DorsetStrider
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| posted on 20/11/07 at 09:23 PM |
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The only thing i would add to what has aready been said is why do we have to SORN it every year! (assuming our builds take longer than a year)
Surely we should just need to SORN it once... unless of course it's another money making exercise
Who the f**K tightened this up!
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 21/11/07 at 01:13 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DorsetStrider
The only thing i would add to what has aready been said is why do we have to SORN it every year! (assuming our builds take longer than a year)
Surely we should just need to SORN it once... unless of course it's another money making exercise
Not sure what you mean here?? Our builds dont need to be taxed, SORN'd, or anything else until they get registered post SVA. I guess in order to
have up-to-date records then the DVLA really do need to check annually. The car could have easily been scrapped or sold in the interim so it makes
sense to me really and as said takes just a few mins online / complete the form and post it.
Dont see the problem at all with SORN. To go back to the original post, its very simple - driving a car on the road that's been declared as on a
SORN (unless going to or from a prebooked MOT) is illegal and will be met with exactly the same fine as driving an untaxed vehicle (including
backdated tax). Personally I think anyone who deliberately drives on a SORN deserves a much bigger fine than driving without tax as it shows an
element of being pre-emptive.
[Edited on 21/11/07 by Paul TigerB6]
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02GF74
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| posted on 21/11/07 at 09:50 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DorsetStrider
The only thing i would add to what has aready been said is why do we have to SORN it every year! (assuming our builds take longer than a year)
Surely we should just need to SORN it once... unless of course it's another money making exercise
exactamundo - you hit the nail on the head - the part I don' like about it.
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Peteff
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| posted on 21/11/07 at 10:30 AM |
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Could it be
Because you could sell the car while it's SORN and the new buyer could continue to use it without registering it in his name thus meaning you
get fined for it?
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 21/11/07 at 10:54 AM |
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Applying some logic to it. For car to be legal it has to be taxed or Sorned. So this must mean that having neither is illegal. Therefore if you dont
declare sorn, then not having tax on a car registered to you is illegal. If this is true then the whole point of SORN is so that you can keep a
vehicle without having to tax it - which in a strange way makes SORN a good thing.
Personally i always keep my cars that are on the road taxed, insured and MOT'd. It therefore boils my wee thatothers used to get away with it,
so red tape aside the new system must be fairer for all. I wonder why they cant do the SORN system through the post office just like tax - ie every
year you have to get a SORN disc, at least then you would have a visual reminder (of course cars that exist just as a V5 would not have a screen to
put it in but you get my drift!)
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