Aico
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 11:49 AM |
|
|
Blade vs more
On the track, is there much difference between the Fireblade and ZX12R? So you're at high revs the entire time. How is it with laptimes? And how
is the difference in feel and experience? Does the ZX12R give a massive more accelerationfeeling?
|
|
|
|
|
indykid
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 11:53 AM |
|
|
as biased as they often are  , i think team hellfire may be in a good position to answer this having used both in their cars.
you could drop them a u2u, but i'm sure one of them will be along shortly
tom
|
|
|
Aico
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 11:57 AM |
|
|
What is their member id?
|
|
|
Marlon
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 12:11 PM |
|
|
That would be "Hellfire".
john.
Band Anyone?
Linky to SWMBO 's band
Linky to Brother in laws band
MKoc 1081
|
|
|
imp paul
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 01:15 PM |
|
|
zx12r pulls like a bullet from a gun  .jpg)
|
|
|
Hellfire
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 01:20 PM |
|
|
It really depends on the type of track but with just one person on board, there isn't a great deal of difference between the Fireblade
and the ZX12R. There is however most definitely a difference and the ZX12R is certainly the quicker car around most tracks due to having more low and
mid-range grunt but keep the blade above 6,000rpm and it is quite a capable engine.
I can't quote direct comparable lap times because unfortunately we only managed a couple of trackdays in the blade engined Indy and we
haven't driven the exact same circuit in the ZX12R.
The difference between the two is more noticeable on the road and with two up on track. The ZX12R is much more driveable and has a better power
delivery throughout the entire rev range. To give you some idea of acceleration, the ZX12R will do the quarter mile in approx 12.5 seconds compared to
13.3 for a 954cc Blade.
So, as you might gather from the above, the difference between the two isn't massive but it is quite significant.
Phil
|
|
|
Aico
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 02:33 PM |
|
|
The thing is I'm looking for a kitcar for driving pleasure. I'm used to fast cars, around 400hp. So I might not be impressed by the
accelerationfeel of a Fireblade. The trouble is that in Holland I can not get a testdrive except when I bring cash to buy the car. This way I can not
make a well thought decision about what kitcar I want. I only got one at the Westfield dealer here in a MegaBusa, but they didn't want to go
over 6.000 RPM because of the cold weather. A bit weird since the grip was there, but anyway because of this I still have no idea if a BEC would
please me. The Westfield didn't really impress me, but I have no idea how the car feels over 6k rpm. Is the feeling below 6k rpm in a Hayabusa
somewhat comparible to a Fireblade at high revs?
[Edited on 16/12/07 by Aico]
|
|
|
Smartripper
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 03:23 PM |
|
|
Wel i owned a zx12r indy and that was quick till you got over the 6500 rpm then it was absolutly insane.....!!!!!!!
Iam also dutch so you can mail me i've you want.....
Daniel
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 04:11 PM |
|
|
Ive had a carbed blade and an injected R1 in my car, and have also driven busa powered BECs which care comparable to a ZX12.
IMHO on the track there's a reasonable difference between a blade and busa above 80mph or so, but below that the difference in acceleration is
not a lot. The R1 sits somewhere in the middle of that, but is closer to the busa than it is to the blade IMHO.
If you look at the RGB lap times for class C (blade) and class A (busa / ZX12 etc) there's only a couple of seconds in it on longer circuits
like Cadwell, and less on shorter circuits, even taking into account the slightly less restrictive rules in class A (splitters allowed, and also wider
rims).
Put it this way, a quick driver in a blade will still beat a reasonably quick driver in a busa, but if you plan to be doing lots of high speed driving
on fast open tracks etc, then the bigger capacity engines will be the better bet.
|
|
|
JUD
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 04:24 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Aico
The thing is I'm looking for a kitcar for driving pleasure. I'm used to fast cars, around 400hp. So I might not be impressed by the
acceleration feel of a Fireblade.
[Edited on 16/12/07 by Aico]
Erm.... I don't think so.
---------------------
MK Indy Blade
|
|
|
zxrlocost
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 05:56 PM |
|
|
you will be impressed
|
PLEASE NOTE: This user is a trader who has not signed up for the LocostBuilders registration scheme. If this post is advertising a commercial product or service, please report it by clicking here.
|
roadrunner
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 07:07 PM |
|
|
As above, a BEC does'nt get going until it hits 7000 rev's plus, mine's only 900cc's and it can still keep me on my toes.
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 07:25 PM |
|
|
If you watched the Race of Champions on Sky Sports today (or watch the repeat on Eurosport tomorrow) you might get a reasonable idea of how quick a
BEC is. The ROC Buggies are bike engine'd (Blackbird I think) and weigh about 475kgs. Around the ROC track at Wembley they were pretty much as
quick as anything including WRC cars and 400bhp Aston GT cars (yes I know the tight track suits them but anyway )
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 07:25 PM |
|
|
http://www.raceofchampions.com/cars,20.html
|
|
|
roadrunner
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 07:48 PM |
|
|
Do they do road legal one's of them.
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 07:56 PM |
|
|
I think they're one-offs built a few years ago specifically for the event, might be wrong though
|
|
|
Jon Ison
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 08:17 PM |
|
|
And Chris, they had tyres more suited to snow than slick tarmac.........
|
|
|
Aico
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 08:26 PM |
|
|
That a BEC is fast 0-60 I know. Any kitcar is that basicly. What matters to me is what feeling do you get when accelerating from 60-100. Does it still
accelerate fast looking at air resistance? When on the highway/track or Ring the speeds rarely drop below 50. Here in Holland the roads are totally
different from The UK. You have B roads, but we don't have that here. The tracks here are also bigger.
[Edited on 16/12/07 by Aico]
|
|
|
Jubal
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 09:27 PM |
|
|
If you are chasing 60-100mph times then buy something with a slippery shape and as much power as you can afford. There's no debate to be had if
you can afford the faster motor.
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 10:11 PM |
|
|
Chris, would be interested in knowing how you've come to the conclusions you have? I know a lot of rubbish is bandied about regarding BEC
acceleration which I too have argued against in the past to add a bit of realism, but 10s 60-100? Surely you've seen better than that yourself
on the drag strip?
Over a standing quarter Ive managed 0-110mph in 12.9s in mine (R1 BEC) and have seen ZX12s/busas go quicker than that, so that's around
0-100 in ~10s and to 60 in just over 4, which equates to a ~6s 60-100 time.
cheers
Chris
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 16/12/07 at 11:00 PM |
|
|
Hi Chris
Yeh looking at my figures is why Im suprised with the figures you've seen. The quarter times you've mentioned seem in the right ballpark
but the trap speeds appear unusually low to me. Busas and ZX12 Locaterfields Ive seen on the quarter have both hit between 112-115 trap, and mine when
it had the blade in it managed 105 across the line (doing a 13.4). I don't know the accuracy of that particular timing beam but in both the
blade and the R1, the speeds measured tied in with the revs / gear I was in over the line. The speeds also seem consistent with other cars that do
similar standing quarter times, whereas a 13 dead at only 100mph seems unusually slow to me, even for a car with rubbish aero?
Also is it worth assuming that if the car did take 14s to get to 100mph then it probably wouldnt be getting to 60 in 4s?
Completely agree with the sentiments about get more power or better aero if high speed acceleration is the primary goal though, Im certainly not
saying they're lightning quick at high speed 
cheers
Chris
[Edited on 16/12/07 by ChrisGamlin]
|
|
|
Hellfire
|
| posted on 17/12/07 at 12:42 PM |
|
|
We've run 12.5 secs quite a few times at York Raceway and at Santa Pod and never managed to achieve a trap speed in excess of 105mph.
Phil
|
|
|
Aico
|
| posted on 17/12/07 at 12:49 PM |
|
|
What is a better shap kitcar? A Fury or SprintR or some kind of sportscar? Looking at my budget the only better shaped car I can think of is the Fury.
Would this do it?
|
|
|
zxrlocost
|
| posted on 17/12/07 at 01:48 PM |
|
|
I think you should get a ride in one first
|
PLEASE NOTE: This user is a trader who has not signed up for the LocostBuilders registration scheme. If this post is advertising a commercial product or service, please report it by clicking here.
|
Aico
|
| posted on 17/12/07 at 01:57 PM |
|
|
Yea I know  But like I said before the kitcar companies here won't let me. Hopefully Smartripper can help me with that.
|
|
|
.jpg)
.JPG)
