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Author: Subject: aluminium chasis
jamie1107

posted on 28/12/07 at 04:34 PM Reply With Quote
aluminium chasis

does anyone have any thoughts on an ali chasis build
im using the first book live axel design but i thought if im fitting a bike engine why not save even more weight i have acess to tig and im good with it on ali but i cant quite get my head around the stress calculations needed i know it wont be as simple as just using 14 swg wall box or maybe it will i know there are some very clever engineers on here so perhaps they might have some info to help with my crazy plan
thanks

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oadamo

posted on 28/12/07 at 04:35 PM Reply With Quote

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Bluemoon

posted on 28/12/07 at 04:39 PM Reply With Quote
Do a search, basicaly a bad idea (expect for manybe a very low millage car).. Problem with fatige failure.

Dan

[Edited on 28/12/07 by Bluemoon]

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Mole

posted on 28/12/07 at 04:41 PM Reply With Quote
I'll give it an hour and this thread will fill three pages.
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RazMan

posted on 28/12/07 at 04:48 PM Reply With Quote
I'll get some supplies in







Cheers,
Raz

When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box

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oadamo

posted on 28/12/07 at 04:55 PM Reply With Quote
i also thought the same make it out of alloy. and i still think that it could be done. but then when you look at how light the steel frame is and how quick you could put it all together i just went for the steel. plus its tryed and tested annd i no that when its all together i wont have to make another one because its fell apart.
adam

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kb58

posted on 28/12/07 at 05:04 PM Reply With Quote
The best explaination is, in order to make it as stiff as a steel chassis, it'll end up being the exact same weight... never mind the work-hardening/cracking concern.





Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html

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jamie1107

posted on 28/12/07 at 05:12 PM Reply With Quote
i had completely overlooked the work hardening issues thankyou for all your info tho steel it is depending on how bored i get ill tig it mak it nice and neat
many thanks

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JoelP

posted on 28/12/07 at 05:29 PM Reply With Quote
just to note that alloy and ally are totally different ideas, its not an interchangeable word!
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macspeedy

posted on 28/12/07 at 05:37 PM Reply With Quote
what if you used enough supporting sheet aluminium wouldn't it be like an aircraft ??
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907

posted on 28/12/07 at 05:40 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
just to note that alloy and ally are totally different ideas, its not an interchangeable word!



Your a top man Joel.

In all the time I've been reading Locostbuilders that's the first time I've seen that in print.


Paul G

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joneh

posted on 28/12/07 at 06:14 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by macspeedy
what if you used enough supporting sheet aluminium wouldn't it be like an aircraft ??


Aircraft chassis don't flex as much as what a car space frame would do as most aircraft struts and braces are designed circular - also aircraft chassis are inspected and replaced very often. I worked at ETPS and replaced several parts on some hawk aircraft, which had large stress cracks.






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JoelP

posted on 28/12/07 at 06:48 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 907
In all the time I've been reading Locostbuilders that's the first time I've seen that in print.


Paul G


is that because its too obvious?! lol

can anyone guess my other pet hate?!

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violentblue

posted on 28/12/07 at 07:24 PM Reply With Quote
an aluminium chassis is a totally different animal, if you want a 7 in aluminum look at a robinhood, which seems to be a swear word around here.





a few pics of my other projects


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madteg

posted on 28/12/07 at 07:25 PM Reply With Quote
ali chassis

Just a thought but ,robinhood did one and had all sorts of problems with sva, might be worth having a look at there site under( lightweight)
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MikeRJ

posted on 28/12/07 at 09:47 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by violentblue
an aluminium chassis is a totally different animal, if you want a 7 in aluminum look at a robinhood, which seems to be a swear word around here.


"The cheese grater" AKA "How not to build an aluminium monocoque"

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D Beddows

posted on 28/12/07 at 09:55 PM Reply With Quote
quote:

Im going to build one just to show you lot it can be done.......




Don't think anyones ever said it 'can't' be done just that it's dangerous if you do it wrong and there's no profit in it if you do it right

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Hellfire

posted on 28/12/07 at 10:11 PM Reply With Quote
Plus..... it's already been done........ so hardly breaking new ground either..........

Phil






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iank

posted on 28/12/07 at 10:35 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
quote:
Originally posted by 907
In all the time I've been reading Locostbuilders that's the first time I've seen that in print.


Paul G


is that because its too obvious?! lol

can anyone guess my other pet hate?!


From the avatar it's got to be the ozone layer hasn't it

For ironic and comedic value my 'tongue in cheek' guess also contains one of my pet hates


[Edited on 28/12/07 by iank]





--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous

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britishtrident

posted on 28/12/07 at 11:29 PM Reply With Quote
A properly engineered aluminium allloy monocoque chassis will likely actually be heavier than a aluminium alloy skinned steel spaceframe. (google for Lotus 25 & Lotus 24)

A welded aluminium alloy spaceframe is very likely to be lethal.





[I] What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]

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gazza285

posted on 28/12/07 at 11:41 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident


A welded aluminium alloy spaceframe is very likely to be lethal.




Like this Le Man winning deathtrap..........






DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!

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Mole

posted on 28/12/07 at 11:45 PM Reply With Quote
Okay I was wrong it took more than an hour.
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gazza285

posted on 28/12/07 at 11:48 PM Reply With Quote
Still on first page for me, you can have more than ten posts you know, unless you like loading new pages that is.





DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!

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britishtrident

posted on 28/12/07 at 11:51 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gazza285
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident


A welded aluminium alloy spaceframe is very likely to be lethal.




Like this Le Man winning deathtrap..........



But it wasn't built out of 25x25 extrusion a Porrsche went to great lengths to monitor the chassis for cracked welds durring the race. More than one car was pulled out with cracked chassis.





[I] What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]

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Puk

posted on 29/12/07 at 09:18 AM Reply With Quote
An aluminium alloy space frame may well be a difficult solution. But building from aluminium alloy isn't inherently a bad idea - its just that the design needs to take advantage of the qualities of the alloy and allow for the weaknesses.

The latest generation Jaguars are aluminium alloy monocoque, they are lighter than the previous generation steel cars. So if it is lightness that you are after it can certainly be achieved.

Before carbon fibre chassis became ubiquitous in F1 aluminium alloy composite panels were being cut and folded to form strong light and relatively safe cars. Ok so the F1 gang have alot of money to throw at the problem.

But in the late 80's there was a cheap aluminium composite chassis in produced, the Formula Lotus. The chassis was of a similar size to a Formula Ford frame but was cheaper to produce and had a terrific reputation for protecting its driver in a prang. IMO that should be the goal of a composite chassis - better safety, easier build (well easier if you can't weld), and self jigging.

There is even a precedent for a composite 7 - the PRB http://www.prbaustralia.com.au/ That car had a terrific reputation for both speed and safety. It wasn't designed to b cheap mind!

So that is my new years resolution - to design a 7 that uses honey comb composite and can be built for under 2k plus the running gear. How hard can it be! Well I'll answer that when its done.





Before you judge a guy, walk a mile in his shoes. Then when you judge him, you're a mile a way and you've nicked his shoes.

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