muzchap
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| posted on 13/2/08 at 02:55 PM |
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HELP PLEASE - PROPSHAFT MANUFACTURERS
Hi guys,
Ok - In a minor disagreement with current propshaft supplier (2 weeks so far to get to this stage) and no discernable way forward - I need either:
a)The exact dimensions of the Honda S2000 gearbox flange and diff flange
or
b) know of a decent propshaft company that will be willing to put a little extra effort in
I've measured the item as best I can, but don't fancy commiting 100% on an expensive prop.
Cheers,
Murray
[Edited on 13/2/08 by muzchap]
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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Canada EH!
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| posted on 13/2/08 at 03:15 PM |
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Help please-Propshaft Manufacturers
I just went through this, the prop shaft guy is 160 km away. I cut the old prop shaft about 3" from the flange at both ends, welded a bit of
exhaust tubing into the open ends while the shaft was in situ, then shipped the lot of to the manufactured. They need the 3'' of old prop
shaft to chuck up the old shaft to machine the universal off. Make sure you have sufficient yoke on the spline. Good luck
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 13/2/08 at 03:20 PM |
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If it was me I'd make a paper or card pattern of the said flanges and then send them to the company. You could apply a die to the flange and
then 'print' that image to the card simply by pressing it against the flange. The image will be very accurate if done carefully and more
than enough for a prop to be made.
To be honest the company does not sound as if it’s being particularly unreasonable
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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muzchap
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| posted on 13/2/08 at 03:36 PM |
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Mr Whippy,
I appreciate their sentiment - but he said - well standard stuff like Ford we can do - so why can't they on Honda?
I think the dye idea is a good one - I'll give that a go - then machine up some of my own plates using the pillar drill and jigsaw - I can
measure the circumferance easily enough its just the PCD etc that I'm struggling with etc etc.
Cheers,
M
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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DarrenW
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| posted on 13/2/08 at 03:36 PM |
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Try Dunning and Fairbank in Leeds or IMS in Birmingham.
Id probs try giving Jon Fairbank a ring first. He is more into kit cars. His email is Jon@dandfltd.co.uk. Probs best to ring as well (cant remember
the number).
Any company will need some basic dimensions first. The s2000 flanges may not be parts they have a lot of call for but could be standard to some other
vehicle. At least he will say what he needs. Feel free to tell him Darren Wake from Wanxiang Europe gave you the number. I posted his details on here
some time ago.
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muzchap
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| posted on 13/2/08 at 03:37 PM |
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Cheers Darren 
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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twybrow
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| posted on 13/2/08 at 04:32 PM |
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Or speak to the chap on here (Chris was it?) as he must have had a prop made up for his S2000 Indy.... Might help.
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 13/2/08 at 06:47 PM |
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Have you tried Bailey Morris in Eaton Socon near St Neots ? just down the road from you. Always found them to be very helpful
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muzchap
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| posted on 13/2/08 at 07:51 PM |
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Chris,
Thanks for that - I'll give it a go
Between painting and sketching I could become Tony Hart, or maybe Rolf Harris - can ya tell what it iz yiiitttt!
M
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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JB
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| posted on 13/2/08 at 07:59 PM |
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When I was at Dunning and Fairbank we had a list of all the available flanges and the ability to get dimensions.
We often worked hard to match customers odd ball flanges. They should still be able to do the same.
The important part of the flange is the register. Often the prop flange has a male register. This must fit perfectly concentric into the diff flange.
Sometimes it is possible to turn down an existing flange to suit a new application.
The bolt holes are not critical. All the bolts do is clamp the flanges together. The drive is taken on the friction between the flanges and NOT the
bolts. Therefore the bolt holes do not need to be very accurate.
If no flange is available I have made adapter flanges to take a common 1300 or 1310 flange.
John
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Hellfire
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| posted on 13/2/08 at 09:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JB
The bolt holes are not critical. All the bolts do is clamp the flanges together. The drive is taken on the friction between the flanges and NOT the
bolts. Therefore the bolt holes do not need to be very accurate.
John
You would have to pardon my ignorance about this, but how can the friction generated between the flanges provide a drive? If what you're saying
is correct then all the bolts do is hold the flanges together.
I know from experience that (even from a bike engine) the bolts cannot be wrenched up tight enough to provide a decent friction drive to not put any
force onto the bolts.
We had an occasion recently where one of the bolts had disappeared. The other three had not worked loose... but they had stretched. Given that a bike
engine generally gives out less that 3/4 the torque of a CEC - I would stress that the bolts are absolutely critical.
What have we done wrong?
Steve
[Edited on 13-2-08 by Hellfire]
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Danozeman
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| posted on 13/2/08 at 10:18 PM |
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Dunning and fairbank did my prop. Excellent service and theyl find the flange sizes etc for you if needed..
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
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:{THC}:YosamiteSam
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| posted on 14/2/08 at 03:03 AM |
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commercial propshaft services 0191 4821690 - team valley (tyne and wear) near the metro center.. they will make stuff like that.. they are good
too..
with regards to the bolts.. the bolts dont take the drive - they give the clamping force thats needed to keep the flanges together -
when correctly toqued any bolt should stretch - its the metals *memory* or its elasticity which provides the clamping force which is why its torqued
to the exact amount - too much it goes past its point of return
[Edited on 14/2/08 by :{THC}:YosamiteSam]
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JB
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| posted on 15/2/08 at 04:25 PM |
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Bolts For Clamping
quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
quote:
Originally posted by JB
The bolt holes are not critical. All the bolts do is clamp the flanges together. The drive is taken on the friction between the flanges and NOT the
bolts. Therefore the bolt holes do not need to be very accurate.
John
You would have to pardon my ignorance about this, but how can the friction generated between the flanges provide a drive? If what you're saying
is correct then all the bolts do is hold the flanges together.
I know from experience that (even from a bike engine) the bolts cannot be wrenched up tight enough to provide a decent friction drive to not put any
force onto the bolts.
We had an occasion recently where one of the bolts had disappeared. The other three had not worked loose... but they had stretched. Given that a bike
engine generally gives out less that 3/4 the torque of a CEC - I would stress that the bolts are absolutely critical.
What have we done wrong?
Steve
[Edited on 13-2-08 by Hellfire]
The correct use of a bolt is to provide a clamping force. However many are installed as locating devices, pivots and to take drive. This is
technically incorrect.
As has been mentioned a bolt is stretched when you tighten it. This residual stress is what keeps it tight. It is pretty highly stressed at this stage
and if you start applying shear forces it may well fatique.
If the bolts transmitted the drive then there would be evidence of this in many places. The bolts in the holes are a loose fit, therefore the flange
(prop, crank, cv driveshaft, etc) would rotate. Under torque application one way it would rotate, then when the torque was applied the other way......
forward and reverse for example..... it would rotate again. This would wear the flange surfaces, hammer the bolts, and you would see evidence of
movement under the washers under the bolt head etc. I have never seen this on parts correctly assembled.
Examples of where bolts apply a clamping force to transmit drive are: Prop flanges, flywheel to crank, brake discs and drums, front pulleys on
engines, cam wheels, cv joints on drive shafts etc.
Sometimes a dowel is added to transmit drive ie on cranks. But the dowel is an interference fit.
On truck shafts the flanges have many holes, to provide a larger clamping force. Some have serrated flanges and some have a Loctite substance between
the flanges.
If you look at the specification of prop bolts on the Ford diff you will find that they are a high quality with I guess a high torque.
I would recommend you read all Carroll Smiths books but especially Nuts Bolts and Plumbing Handbook. This explains the above in much more detail.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 15/2/08 at 11:48 PM |
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Murray, If Jon doesnt sort you out try IMS in Birmingham. They did the drivetrain for the Batman car. Another superb company that dont get much
publicity on here. They did my prop as a favour and only charged about £50. The man in charge is David Biggs but his son does more work these days
(Mark). Again tell him i put you in touch. I think they have something to do with the place in Gatehead that Terry recommended. IMS are a lot bigger
than people realise, maybe bigger than Bailey and Morris (who are another great company to try - Kevin Heads would be a good guy to talk to there).
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