simes43
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 09:17 AM |
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Brand Hatch: What the................
Just seen this from the weekend.....cant see why points were awarded do anyone other than the 61 car
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Rrqo8S645Ew
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 09:21 AM |
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"3 points, 5 second penalty and 3 grid slots down for following race. "
So what happened then?? I'm confused (nothing new there then!!  ). Guessing it was for overtaking under yellow waved flags??
[Edited on 26/6/08 by Paul TigerB6]
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simes43
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 09:46 AM |
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The only car that overtakes under yellows is car 61. Discuss.............
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progers
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 10:24 AM |
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I presume 61 is the one shooting up the inside and clips the light blue car and then spins out? seems like he is the main offender if anyone.
Certainly the car taking the video should not be penalised.
One thing I did note in the first race though was that several cars were not slowing down for the double waved flag when a car was being extracted
from the paddock gravel by the "snatch" vehicle. There were even some people trying to overtake!. I'm surprised a few people
didn't get taken to task over that, it was plain dangerous.
- Paul
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82 Locost
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 10:34 AM |
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I can't see the vid at work. I've now got to wait until tonight to see the action.
It looks like there were a lot on non-finishers so I assume there was quite a bit of contact.
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russbost
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 12:18 PM |
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Was the guy who was penalised named "Lewis" by any chance - is his car red black & silver???
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simes43
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 12:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 82 Locost
I can't see the vid at work. I've now got to wait until tonight to see the action.
It looks like there were a lot on non-finishers so I assume there was quite a bit of contact.
In the second race on the first lap we had a "launch party" on the beach at Druids........
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gib1et
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 02:55 PM |
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Simon,
I thought the penalty was not for over taking under yellows but for gaining an advantage. i.e. not letting the impeded car back through after the
incident.
I don't want to comment on the penalty itself but I have my own views.
Cheers
Jason
#21
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simes43
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 03:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gib1et
Simon,
I thought the penalty was not for over taking under yellows but for gaining an advantage. i.e. not letting the impeded car back through after the
incident.
I don't want to comment on the penalty itself but I have my own views.
Cheers
Jason
#21
Jason,
There seems to be more than one impeded driver here.
The questions are, when passing through a yellowed incident do you stop to let cars rejoin and how do you judge which cars are at fault, coming to a
halt or speeding up?
Si
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 03:12 PM |
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Maybe the penalty was down to the government introducing a new law that says the stewards should discriminate against certain racing drivers in order
to bring about equality - in that everyone should win an equal number of races??? Other drivers didnt get a penalty as a form of positive
discrimination
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gib1et
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 04:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by simes43
Jason,
There seems to be more than one impeded driver here.
The questions are, when passing through a yellowed incident do you stop to let cars rejoin and how do you judge which cars are at fault, coming to a
halt or speeding up?
Si
Simon
There is no Black and white answer to that question as each driver won't have all the facts to make and execute the perfect decision.
It's down to vague terms like "Best Endeavour" and "Reasonable Effort" but that sort of language doesn't sit well
in a rule book.
Anyway we could throw this issue around all day, lets hope it's a one off and people aren't put in that situation again.
Cheers
Jason
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BenB
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 05:37 PM |
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Seems a bit harsh but look at it from the marshalls point of view. No-one is slowing down much for waved yellows, the video car swings out to the
outside of the red car (ie making it even closer to where they're trying to recover the car). The hairpin spiney stuff just confuses things but
at the end of the day if the spiny stuff had happened immediately after the swing-out move, the video car would probably have driven into the
marshalls....
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Gloves
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 09:24 PM |
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I'm the driver of the light blue car. There was a marshalls report for the car hitting me (he got 2 points I think) but there wasn't a
report against Ali and myself, we were subject to a protest by the impeded driver (curiously he didn't seem bothered about the car that had
actually hit him). Ali and I were both cleared of overtaking under yellow flags but the official ruling was 'inadvertantly taking
advantage'. As you can see from the video I had just taken a pretty hefty wallop on my offside rear wing and wheel and had about 1/4 second to
see the same car that hit me take Paul out. Ali and I drove round Druids and resumed racing once past the green flag. I was pretty surprised to still
be in the race and then spent the next lap trying to keep up with Ali whilst determining that the car was still in a safe condition to continue (there
was a knocking coming from somewhere near that quarter). You can see from the video in Ali's rear view mirror that handing the place back would
have been difficult as the incident had allowed other cars to join in the fun and letting just the one car past would have been impossible. We were
both surprised and dissapointed when Viv gave us the time penalty, and with a time penalty comes three points (my first in nearly six years of racing)
and a three position grid movement at Donny.
Mark (#6)
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simes43
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| posted on 27/6/08 at 08:29 AM |
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I think we maybe up for a chat at Donny!
Question now is "if a car falls off at the Craners, do we all stop and wait for it to dig itself out in case we are judged to have gained an
advantage?"
If the 61 car had passed Paul after the contact then I would have understood him getting a penalty, not Mark or Ally.
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aligarratt
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| posted on 27/6/08 at 01:13 PM |
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Hi Everyone,
Lewis Hamilton got a 10 place grid penalty for wrecking 2 cars at a Red light in the (limited) pit lane. This was totally avoidable, but an honest
mistake. So i would say that the decision was fair enough.
Mark & I had no option, we were running at a safe pace through the waived yellows, car 61 did not see the yellows, hit Mark and then hit Paul (I
believe he recieved 2 points, and a 2 place grid penalty). Mark and I, hit nobody, forced nobody off of the track, Stuck to the inside line out of
harms way, Paul looked to be at a standstill half off the track.
Should we have hit the breaks Possibly causing a much bigger collision as we would have had to have stopped?
Basically, we have been penalised and labeled as dangerous drivers, when we were doing the safest action.
Locost #3
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Rob Palin
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| posted on 27/6/08 at 04:07 PM |
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Although i benefitted from the Clerk's decision i have to say that after watching the video i really can't see how it was justified. I
see nothing unsafe or unfair about what you did and would have done exactly the same myself. You can't have your points back though! ;-)
I find it frustrating that they clamp down on something like this but on Saturday i saw a car repeatedly driving aggressively at the side of another
car on the straight causing (light) contact and nothing at all was done about that.
Surely consistency in the policing is central to minimising dodgy driving in our series?
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simes43
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| posted on 27/6/08 at 04:31 PM |
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I find it frustrating that they clamp down on something like this but on Saturday i saw a car repeatedly driving aggressively at the side of another
car on the straight causing (light) contact and nothing at all was done about that.
Was the incident reported to to CofC and/ or have you got any video?
I am getting a film crew for Donny.
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Gloves
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| posted on 27/6/08 at 04:41 PM |
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Cheers Rob and Si. This ruling does open a can of worms because we are always looking to gain an advantage (I would be spending considerably less
money doing track days if I just wanted to drive around a track). What happens if we are lapping a back marker and he gets in the way of the first guy
and holds him up allowing someone past? By this ruling the overtaking driver would inadvertantly gain an advantage and should relinquish the place
back at the earliest opportunity. I've never seen a racing driver be that polite before!
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Rob Palin
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| posted on 27/6/08 at 07:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by simes43
Was the incident reported to to CofC and/ or have you got any video?
The driver on the receiving end didn't want to make a fuss about it and my camera cut out in the assembly area so i figured little more than a
war of words would have come of it, despite it happening directly in front of race control.
[Edited on 27/6/08 by Rob Palin]
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simes43
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| posted on 27/6/08 at 11:46 PM |
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I hope the two of you have appealed.
Has anyone got any footage of the Druid incident on the first lap of the second race?
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Rob Palin
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| posted on 28/6/08 at 07:28 AM |
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I've got Rich Jenkins and Dave Black both going off but not the other incident, sorry.
Edit: Just spotted these photos here:
http://www.snappyracers.com/album/Brands220608/slides/IMG_3764.html
and then a split-second later
http://www.snappyracers.com/album/Brands220608/slides/IMG_3767.html
You can see the incident in progress at the top of the photos. It shows the critical moment when one of the cars is on the grass on the inside but
unfortunately not the contentious point of how it got there.
[Edited on 28/6/08 by Rob Palin]
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Gloves
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| posted on 28/6/08 at 06:17 PM |
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Si,
no neither of us appealed (though in hindsight we should have done). I would have struggled to get the £185 appeal fee in cash as I forgot to take my
cheque book, it's on my checklist for things to take for future races though!
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simes43
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| posted on 28/6/08 at 06:58 PM |
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I believe we need a drivers meeting at Donny to clear the air and get back to where we were.
There seems to be a problem with yellow flags, avoidable accidents and a problem with observers missing the obvious.
Before someone loses their license we need to become self policing and avoid the MSA route as much as we can.
With some of the problems of late, we cannot rely on the stewards to get it right and their actions to be spot on.
[Edited on 28/6/08 by simes43]
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JamJah
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| posted on 27/7/08 at 02:07 AM |
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Should I point out that the camera took two pictures in between those two. A four series set would tell a fuller story.
This is personal advise or personal opinion.
Constructive comments gratefully recieved, picking is left for noses.
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