mads
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 10:12 AM |
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which bike engine to use?
Hi all,
I'm completely new to the kitcar scene so I apologise in advance for any 'dumb' questions I may ask.
Just wondered why the Fireblade and R1 engines are more commonly used in BECs? Is it simply because they are more easily available or is it something
specific about the engines?
The reason I ask is that I was planning on using a GSXR engine (in a MK Indy) but want to make sure that its not going to cause me any problems when
building.
The plan is to use the car on the road and on the track - not done track days before but do you have to have a dry sump?
Any advice or suggestion would be greatly appreciated! 
We gain knowledge faster than we do wisdom!
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in
sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip!"
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eznfrank
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 10:25 AM |
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there are quite a few gixxer indy's out there so wouldn't have thought there would be too many issues. Think blade and r1's tend to
be a bit cheaper that's all.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 10:31 AM |
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Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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Andy W
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 10:43 AM |
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You won't go wrong with this fazer engine.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=93434
Andy
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ko_racer
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 10:46 AM |
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Especially if it's the 5VY marked one as a change of cams for R1 jobbies will give it the same power as an 04/06 r1. The head, barrel, pistons
etc are the same as R1's except for being a different colour.
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r1_pete
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 10:47 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
The guy building that had started on something even more radical.....
R1, Blade, GSXR1000, very popular litre sportsbikes, plenty get wrecked, so a good choice of motors available, plus, they've been around a good
while now too.
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scootz
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 10:49 AM |
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This one...
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scootz
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 10:57 AM |
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Look at the stat's for this bad-boy...
Displacement: 50.00 ccm (3.05 cubic inches)
Engine type: Single cylinder
Stroke: 2
Power: 5.48 HP (4.0 kW)) @ 8000 RPM
Max RPM: 8000
Compression: 11.0:1
Fuel system: Carburettor
Cooling system: Air
Gearbox: 3-speed
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 11:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Look at the stat's for this bad-boy...
Displacement: 50.00 ccm (3.05 cubic inches)
Engine type: Single cylinder
Stroke: 2
Power: 5.48 HP (4.0 kW)) @ 8000 RPM
Max RPM: 8000
Compression: 11.0:1
Fuel system: Carburettor
Cooling system: Air
Gearbox: 3-speed
I'm scare! hold me hand 
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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scootz
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 11:01 AM |
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And so you should be - it's an ANIMAL I tell you!
Be brave Mr Whippy... be brave!
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scootz
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 11:05 AM |
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LOOK AT ONE GO!
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progers
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 11:20 AM |
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I'll actually try and give you some helpful advice....
The reason Blades and R1's are favoured is because people know how to get around oil surge issues with these engines.
GXRs are a bit of an unproven entity in BECs, partcilarly in front engined installations. I think for the road they will be fine but for fast track
work some modification of sump and inclusion of a baffle plate will need to be done at a minimum.
This is the unproven bit, GSXRs seem to work well in mid engined cars (used quite a lot in the US and successfully in the Jedis single seater
championship) but I do not know of anyone running a race car with a front engined (longitudinal) layout. The last time it was tried with K1/K2 engines
they kept on blowing up. This may have been because the design of the wet sump was not well thought out.
Have a look at Rilltech racings webpage (http://www.rilltechracing.com/products/index.shtml ), they have a nice billet sump which has been used in mid
engined racers. I wouldn't want to push my car on track unless it had something like this installed.
Good luck with your build, the GSXr is a good powerful engine and it would be nice to see a few more around. Which model year were you considering?
- Paul
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scootz
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 11:28 AM |
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Sorry... 
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chris_smith
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 11:50 AM |
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quote:
I'll actually try and give you some helpful advice....
advice - scrap the bec and do a cec
" ill get my coat"
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 11:56 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chris_smith
quote:
I'll actually try and give you some helpful advice....
advice - scrap the bec and do a cec
" ill get my coat"
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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coozer
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 posted on 17/7/08 at 12:28 PM |
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quote:
advice - scrap the bec and do a cec
" ill get my coat"
 , well said that man...
Tuesday at SVA the tester told me Becs will not pass the new IVA without reverse, AND theres no amount of pressure that will change that. Its a
European directive that cannot be changed.
So, time to leave bike engines in bikes and use car engines in cars!
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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r1_pete
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 12:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chris_smith
quote:
I'll actually try and give you some helpful advice....
advice - scrap the bec and do a cec
" ill get my coat"
I think I'm in agreement, but a couple of ideas I keep having:
Moto Guzzi engined 3 wheeler morgan - a - like.
Something with a Triumph Rocket 3 motor in.
Something with a Honda Pan Euro V4 in...
All shafties too, so no sprocket to prop adapting.
But my R1 motor is staying right in the deltabox frame it belongs in....
[Edited on 17/7/08 by r1_pete]
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 01:04 PM |
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I mean imagine a bike powered car? that’s completely mad anyway, like something you'd think of if you drunk some petrol
oh the site is at the verge of war I can tell...and no doubt with BET (Bike Engined Tanks) vs TET he he
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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mads
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 01:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by progers
I'll actually try and give you some helpful advice....
The reason Blades and R1's are favoured is because people know how to get around oil surge issues with these engines.
GXRs are a bit of an unproven entity in BECs, partcilarly in front engined installations. I think for the road they will be fine but for fast track
work some modification of sump and inclusion of a baffle plate will need to be done at a minimum.
This is the unproven bit, GSXRs seem to work well in mid engined cars (used quite a lot in the US and successfully in the Jedis single seater
championship) but I do not know of anyone running a race car with a front engined (longitudinal) layout. The last time it was tried with K1/K2 engines
they kept on blowing up. This may have been because the design of the wet sump was not well thought out.
Have a look at Rilltech racings webpage (http://www.rilltechracing.com/products/index.shtml ), they have a nice billet sump which has been used in mid
engined racers. I wouldn't want to push my car on track unless it had something like this installed.
Good luck with your build, the GSXr is a good powerful engine and it would be nice to see a few more around. Which model year were you considering?
- Paul
cheers for the reply Paul (and others! )
I have seen a few GSXR based Indy's and MK themselves actualyl made a turbocharged one from what I've read. This is the line I was
actually going to take myself - turbocharge it that is. When I say I will use it on the track, it wont be that much (2-3 times a year for a bit of
fun) so I would hope it wont be a problem. The car will be built too go fast but its not going to be solely built for that purpose. Can only at top
speed of 70mph on Her Majesty's Highway anyway! 
I'd be looking at a 2003 or above engine model - got the manual already for my bike
As for the SVA thing about needing a reverse... I read that elsewhere too. Is it too much of a hassle/expense to put an electric reverse into a BEC? I
know it adds extra weight to the car but I'm not planning to build the lightest Indy possible.
My other query while I'm on the topic is... which type of gearshift is better? Its a toss up between using a gearstick or paddles... are paddles
difficult to install for BECs?
p.s. I have ZERO mechanical knowledge but am reading quite a few books, gf's dad does mechanics, as well as my neighbour and have internet to
ask you kind folk!
We gain knowledge faster than we do wisdom!
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in
sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip!"
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progers
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 03:17 PM |
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For what its worth here's some answers :-
1) If you are going to turbo the engine its even more important that you don't get oil surge - just think of the cost of replacement!
2) Go for a K5/6 supposed to be stronger than K3/4
3) Its not that hard to put in an electric reverse
4) Paddles are by far the best option - not much more complex than making a gearshift mechanism.
- Paul
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Hellfire
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| posted on 17/7/08 at 05:14 PM |
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Welcome to the madhouse. Here's my advice;
Firstly, ignore all the pro CEC boys. They'd love the power/weight of a BEC but don't want to admit they've made the wrong choice by
fitting a boat anchor. Most of them will eventually see the light though and fit a bike engine.
If you're going to take it on track, you need at least a baffle plate fitted to protect the engine from oil surge.
Although you say you're not going to build the lightest Indy possible, it's worth paying attention to the weight and making sure you
don't fit anything you ultimately don't need (such as a reverse). Also don't worry about SVA/IVA. As soon as the IVA regulations
come into effect, there'll be plenty of reverse boxes and two piece props available to rent.
The decision between gearstick and paddleshift is really a personal choice. We've fitted a paddleshift and prefer it to the conventional stick
we had previously but not everybody does.
Lastly, have a read of our build and re-build diaries. Should give you some idea of how easily these things go together.
Phil
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mads
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| posted on 20/7/08 at 01:56 PM |
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cheers all for the replies...
I think I would still like to go for the GSXR engine but will certainly look into the oil surge issues before buying the engine. Probably end up
getting an accusump I think. Though my friend has suggested maybe a hayabusa.... anyone any advice about this engine? Any problems/benefits?
Much appreciate your help.
p.s. Hellfire - I'd read your diary before posting anyway so expect plenty of questions!!! I like your lockable boot idea - looks good.
We gain knowledge faster than we do wisdom!
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in
sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip!"
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Hellfire
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| posted on 21/7/08 at 11:35 AM |
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Personally, I would only consider a Busa engine if;
A - It was a bargain and as cheap to buy as other similar bike engines
B - I intended to stick a turbo on it
To fit one in it's standard state of tune would be a waste of money IMO, when there are other engines out there with similar performance for a
lot less money.
Phil
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Terrortubby
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| posted on 21/7/08 at 06:33 PM |
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Sorry to just jump in but if you don't ask you won't find out.
I'm a disabled biker who can no longer sit on a bike or trike.
I have in my garage a Dutton S3 with a 1600 engine that I have just bought to get out in occasionally. It goes ok and handles well and once the
plastictrickery gremlins are sorted it should be a nice little car, albeit a tad slow as its got a 1971 crossflow engine.
I also have a 1990 ZX 10 engine out of a B3 chassis. I have the loom and the ancilliaries needed to make it run.
I have researched reversing boxes and feel that having to sell an organ to fund the purchase is out of the question.
Is there an easy way to fit an electric reverse without having to sell my soul to the devil?
Cheers
Gary
 
Rescued attachment 2008_0710Brum0002.JPG
Lord of all the pies!!
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smart1275gt
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| posted on 21/7/08 at 09:13 PM |
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I've heard good reports about 138bhp zx9r engines if you're on a budget, but if you have the cash, 170bhp zx10r, 178bhp zx12r or a 170bhp
CBR1000 is a good choice.
I'm personally looking at 135bhp TL1000R engines at the moment, 'coz I like that V-twin sound and grunt!!
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