ceebmoj
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 posted on 2/7/03 at 11:39 AM |
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any info on twin bike engine 4wd car
Hi
I have heard some storeys about a twin bike engine 4wd car out there does any body have any details or pictures of this mad machine. I would be
interested in finding out how they have done the front weal drive from one of the engines. Any thourts of links would be great.
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ned
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| posted on 2/7/03 at 11:41 AM |
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I believe it was a twin kawasaki engined tiger. had a split gearstick so you could drive the engines in different gears. I believe it still has the
fastest road legal 0-60 of around 2.8 secs?! anyone confirm/correct me??
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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ned
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| posted on 2/7/03 at 11:43 AM |
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http://www.tigerracing.com/cars/z100main.htm
beware, I've got yellow skin
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kingr
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| posted on 2/7/03 at 11:57 AM |
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Zcars are the guys that do all that stuff. But in short, don't bother, it's been discussed a million
times before, and it's far more work than is justified by the performance increase. You'd be better off with a turbo'd hayabusa, and
it would probably cost about a quarter as much too.
Kingr
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 2/7/03 at 11:59 AM |
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Hi
Im not considering doing this just interested to see what has been done and how it was done.
I thourt I had herd of a car that did not have the transfer box and used the engins independently with a electronic control unit inbetwen to mack the
revs
[Edited on 2/7/03 by ceebmoj]
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Stu16v
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| posted on 2/7/03 at 04:58 PM |
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The electronic gadgetry was not so nuch to match the revs, as traction control for the front engine. If you think about it, as the car accelerates
hard, the weight on the front wheels is drastically reduced. Without the 'electronics', the engine driving the front wheels would hit the
limiter, and the front wheels would just light up, and you end up with no steering.
HTH Stu.
Dont just build it.....make it!
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 2/7/03 at 06:01 PM |
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its not uncommon 2 see 2 bike engines in the back of a car just driving the rear wheels...........
they shift a bit too
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StuartA
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| posted on 3/7/03 at 11:12 AM |
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As I recall Tiffany Dell set that 0-60 record in the Z100 and then promptly blew up one of the engines on his second attempt! It was on Top Gear about
2 years ago. Can't drive for toffee that bloke  
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ned
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| posted on 3/7/03 at 11:19 AM |
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they give him toffee?
beware, I've got yellow skin
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 3/7/03 at 02:28 PM |
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I think it needed about £10k's worth of Motec ECU to make it handle in a half reasonable manner, otherwise it just wouldnt go round corners
happily at all. Other than the electronics , the way they did it was pretty simple really tho, just turn the forward-most engine around and drive a
regular diff off that for the front wheels
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 3/7/03 at 03:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
I think it needed about £10k's worth of Motec ECU to make it handle in a half reasonable manner, otherwise it just wouldnt go round corners
happily at all. Other than the electronics , the way they did it was pretty simple really tho, just turn the forward-most engine around and drive a
regular diff off that for the front wheels
I had got the impression from the web sight that the output from both engines had been put in to a transfer/ central dif box and then the out put from
this box had the been taken to the front and rear weels. However if like you say they simply used a control system between the two engines and then
used control similar to that in a skyline to control the power balance between the front and rear of the car that would be an easer implementation (in
my opinion)
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Simon
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| posted on 3/7/03 at 04:09 PM |
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Sbarro built a car (one-off) back in the late 70's using two Kawasaki Z1300 (6 cyl) units.
Both engines mounted in the rear seats, so to speak, driving rear wheels.
There is a twin bike engined Renault Clio, one in front, one in rear.
For the really old folk, but not bike engined, the was the Wolfrace Sonic.
Then again, for totally mental power outputs, anyone been watching the Tractor Pulling on Sat?
ATB
Simon
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ned
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| posted on 3/7/03 at 04:13 PM |
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probably a ccc mag article at some point, but i remember a couple of years ago dubsport put two gti engines in a mk1 golf, one in front, one in
back.
more recently top gear had a twin engined TT on their circuit at the old dunsfold aerodrome site.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Cussed
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| posted on 3/7/03 at 05:10 PM |
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Cooper
And didn't John Cooper nearly kill himself whilst out testing a twin engined mini in 1963. The crash was sufficiently bad that the development
was stopped.
It's not a new idea, and it's still not a great deal safer either.
There's a hillclimb winning Dax Rush which has a turbo'd Hayabusa pushing out around 350bhp giving something like 800bhp per tonne.
Apparently one of those can be built for 15000 quid. Who would want more?
[I'll be happy with around a quarter of that]
Cheers
Eddie
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Rorty
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| posted on 4/7/03 at 04:04 AM |
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There were twin engined (one front and one back) VW Beetles operating in the desert campaign in N Africa during WW II.
There was also a similar factory built 4WD 2CV (or Dianne?).
I designed a transfer box/4WD system for a turbo Busa powered sand rail for a nutter in the States. I haven't heard or seen anything about it
since though.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 4/7/03 at 07:13 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ceebmoj
I had got the impression from the web sight that the output from both engines had been put in to a transfer/ central dif box and then the out put from
this box had the been taken to the front and rear weels. However if like you say they simply used a control system between the two engines and then
used control similar to that in a skyline to control the power balance between the front and rear of the car that would be an easer implementation (in
my opinion)
The rear wheel drive Z100 uses a transfer box between the two engines, but the 4wd Z100WR doesnt, just has one engine powering the front and one
powering the rear, and uses the electronics to act as a pseudo "centre diff" to control the power to both ends.
Its simpler in concept I guess, but I cant see it would work (in a handling sense) as well as a proper 4wd system with centre diff etc, although for
straight line acceleration its perfectly good.
Chris
[Edited on 4/7/03 by ChrisGamlin]
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 4/7/03 at 07:39 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
The rear wheel drive Z100 uses a transfer box between the two engines, but the 4wd Z100WR doesnt, just has one engine powering the front and one
powering the rear, and uses the electronics to act as a pseudo "centre diff" to control the power to both ends.
Its simpler in concept I guess, but I cant see it would work (in a handling sense) as well as a proper 4wd system with centre diff etc, although for
straight line acceleration its perfectly good.
Chris
[Edited on 4/7/03 by ChrisGamlin]
Why don’t you se using an electronic control system producing as good results as a centre diff. I would have thourt that it would produce a more
driveable car as the control of the two engines could surly be developed to deal with more eventuality’s i.e. the way the power is split between the
front and rear of the car could be actively adjusted baceds on what the car is doing ie cornering, accelerating or many other conditions. However
maybe you can do all of this with in a diff I would not know.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 4/7/03 at 08:03 AM |
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To be fair, I guess its more of a gut feeling than anything, its just having heard how much electronics it needs to make it handle makes me feel its a
flawed concept, and I dont feel that cutting engine power (which is very abrupt) is the best way of maintaining traction and balancing power
distribution, its much better done in the drivetrain system with trick diffs etc.
With a regular 4wd system, it will distribute the power around the drive train, as you accelerate hard, it will transfer a bulk of the power to the
rear wheels, and when you corner, it will balance the power accordingly. With two seperate engines though, all it can do is cut power to a set of
wheels to stop wheelspin, but obviously cant redistribute that power to the rear wheels under acceleration for example. Also, I dont think that the
electronics will give it a smooth transfer of power compared to a diff. For example, I cannot imagine a car like this doing 4 wheel powerslides
because the electronics would be too abrupt, either giving full power, or cutting power, never giving a smooth feed of power when cornering.
Chris
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kingr
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| posted on 4/7/03 at 08:57 AM |
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Best way I've seen of sticking two bike engines together? At the crank!! oh yes, a V8 bike engine, how cool must that be? The sound must be
absolutely mind blowing. Radical and Quaife are currently (seperately) both working on them. The down side? £26000 don't come easy to most
people.
Uncle Considerably, can you lend me a bit of money please?
Kingr
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 4/7/03 at 11:17 AM |
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Yup, certainly the best way to do it,
"V8" twin bike engine!"
Chris
[Edited on 4/7/03 by ChrisGamlin]
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Findlay234
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| posted on 4/7/03 at 11:27 AM |
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http://www.cyclonepowerltd.co.uk
the sites not up at the moment i think its under construction. Its the cyclone 2 litre V8 seen at the kit shows recently much more compact than the
pic youve put up. 302bhp N/A at 10000 rpm.
For you sir...... £14000
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kingr
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| posted on 4/7/03 at 11:40 AM |
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That diff looks disturbingly like a sierra one for my liking, I guess a cossie one would take the abuse though.
Only £14000? I'll take two then, and have the first ever twin V8 quad BEC in the world, and propel myself into an early grave in about 2 second
flat.
Kingr
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ned
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| posted on 4/7/03 at 12:01 PM |
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well, the electric balancing of power to wheels for handling works perfectly well for the nissan skyline, admittably it only has one engine
though!!
I have an image of the cyclone engine, clicky clicky
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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kingr
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| posted on 4/7/03 at 12:20 PM |
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Just struck me - no gearbox on it, I wonder what you'd mate it up to?
Kingr
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ned
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| posted on 4/7/03 at 12:23 PM |
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anything i guess! the crankcase could be made with wahtever bolt patter i guess and Quarter master can have clutch plates for ford/hewland/staffs
gearboxes I imagine. the one in the car was obviously connected to something, just dont know what!
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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