David Jenkins
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| posted on 6/7/14 at 08:30 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
Alex "I've taken legal advice" salmond cant be trusted on anything, his only real interest it making his willy bigger, and his ego
He reminds me of all those union leaders that used to be around in the 60's & 70's - rabble-rousing, shouting down the moderate
opposition, trampling over everyone to push their own idealistic views.
My brother and his family live near Nairn - they love Scotland as it is now - but I'm quite sure that if there's a yes vote then
he'll be off to Englandshire...
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 6/7/14 at 09:14 AM |
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I'm in the UK (the Eastern bit), so I have no say.
If our Scottish compatriates wish to leave the UK to be led by King Salmond, so be it.
I can't be the only one that is tired of all the rhetoric from Salmondland. England and the English appear to be the root cause of all of
Salmondland's problems, but contribute little to all that is good.
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sdh2903
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| posted on 6/7/14 at 10:09 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
Very simple response from me.
I'm a proud Scot.
I'm a proud Brit.
Independence will be a disaster for Scotland!
I will remain in the UK if Scottish dependence is declared. ( ie. my family will leave Scotland)
Common sense will prevail and my last sentence won't matter.
Lots of money will be wasted and Scots will fight among themselves as they have always done.
Sigh!
Get a grip fellow Scots and vote NO and bring an end to this nonsense!
+1
Apart from the fact I'm English living in scotland. And I love living here. But if that prick salmond gets in charge I'm retreating back
south of the wall at the first opportunity.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 6/7/14 at 11:39 AM |
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The biggest ℅ support for the Yes vote is actually among the so called "white settlers" the rather racist name for the mainly
middle aged English born incomers who have settled in the highlands and islands. A lot of these people sold up in south east England making a killing
on their property and opted for a simpler life, often they play an active part in keeping local communities alive.
The No Campaign has been rather badly, early on thee No campaign put the wrong issues to focus on, particularly EU membership and the Pound when it
is fairly obvious these are non-existant problems.
The big problems would really centre on splitting up major non-devolved institutions and systems, BBC, DVLA, HMRC, MOD, ..........
The defence forces are another set off issues, an independent Scotland would need Trident like a hole in the head but providing a base for the
submarines is major source of employment. Splitting up or sharing the UK surface fleet, land and air forces less thorny issue. An indy Scotland is
never going to follow the Irish example of simply opting out of propertly defending its' own shore and would play a part in NATO.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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whitestu
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| posted on 6/7/14 at 11:42 AM |
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I don't personally think it is a good idea for the Scots, but I think the right thing to do is support whatever the Scottish people decide.
I'm English (In fact I'm actually from South Yorkshire, so not really English at all) and have no desire to force my opinion on the Scots.
If using a divorce analogy, you can't stop your wife / husband from leaving you if they want. The best thing to do is let them go and do what is
right for the kids.
Stu
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scootz
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| posted on 6/7/14 at 12:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
... but if that prick Salmond gets in charge I'm retreating back south of the wall at the first opportunity...
But 'that prick' is in charge... democratically so.
Bear in mind that if there is a 'yes' majority, then there will be an election to vote for the new Scottish Government shortly thereafter.
There's no guarantee that the SNP would win this... in fact, I suspect that Scottish Labour would do very well.
It's Evolution Baby!
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sdh2903
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| posted on 6/7/14 at 12:40 PM |
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I generally don't have an issue with the SNP at all in fact I believe they do a good job in getting a good deal for scotland and this is where
my confusion starts. As far as my politically inept brain can work out, scotland to a degree sorts it's own laws, own education system and it
gets money,support and bargaining power from Westminster. Sounds like the best of both worlds in my mind. The only major benefits (from the
SNP's perspective) is a few more decision making rights and giving 'that prick' salmond the ego trip he so craves.
Why make a small nation into an even smaller country? I really struggle to come up with a solid sensible answer to support independence.
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sdh2903
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| posted on 6/7/14 at 12:41 PM |
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So as you started the discussion and as a resident what's your opinion scootz?
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scootz
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| posted on 6/7/14 at 02:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
So as you started the discussion and as a resident what's your opinion scootz?
Still weighing up the options.
It's Evolution Baby!
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sdh2903
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| posted on 6/7/14 at 02:10 PM |
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You'll get splinters sitting on that fence
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 6/7/14 at 02:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by v8kid
quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh WILL they have "Danny Boy" as their national anthem?
Forcing them to adopt a song written by an Englishman about Ireland would certainly be a suitable humiliation, but perhaps a bit subtle for your
average Glaswegian.
Along with severance from Sterling, I think we should insist on them taking 'Donald where's your troosers' as their national anthem,
when they go.
Crikey you are a bit bitter aren't you!
Can't you see the racist element in these remarks? I'm British of English stock happily living in Scotland, by the way, and I can easily
see how such remarks would fuel bigotry to the detriment of us all.
No cheers today.
I never knew it was an Irish song.. But seriously though has there been any consideration to the smaller practicalities like suddenly having a bunch
of foreigners in your country?
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jeffw
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| posted on 6/7/14 at 09:44 PM |
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So we have an UK general election in May next year....if Scotland votes Yes in September is there any point in counting UK parliament votes in
Scotland? If not why not get rid of the Scottish MPs straight away and not let them vote on UK issues?
If Scotland votes yes then I think we English should do the big thing and give Wales and Northern Ireland independence as well. We'll have no
issues with flags, no issues with the English Pound issues by the Bank of England and no issues with what to call ourselves. it will also save us
(England) a small fortune in Tax. 
If Scotland Votes yes do we reopen the shipbullding in Portsmouth which got closed to buy Scots No votes on the Clyde...Move the carrier and Type 26
builds to England.
Remember one thing....as George Galloway said recently, when two parties get divorced the one leaving doesn't get to use the joint credit card
anymore. Scotland will not get to use the Pound and it will get nasty....divorce always is and the UK government have no reason to play nice.
Ohh one more thing....If Scotland votes yes and ends up outside the EU expect Border Posts and immigration checks to be up and running straight away.
I truly hope that Scots will do the sensible thing and stay in the union. If they don't it will get very messy and nasty. I wonder if
I'll have a 2nd passport given my Scottish mother?
[Edited on 6/7/14 by jeffw]
[Edited on 6/7/14 by jeffw]
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 12:27 AM |
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quote:
all i can see is a bunch of scottish people who have this hatred of everyone else. I work offshore and 90% of the people here are scottish, and they
all have the same view of english people, you would think they were all on braveheart the way they carry on.
Having asked plenty of guys out here what they are voting for, they all say independance. So I ask them why, all i get is a long pause and then
'so the english cannae tell us what tae dae'. Other than they, they dont have a clue why theyre voting!!
That's curious, I only know 2 people planning to vote yes. And none of them, no or yes, have an anti-english sentiment.
That said, all the folk you see being interviewed about it say yes and seem to ignore the fact that the only thing that comes out of AS's mouth
is 'that's just scare tactics' and no actual answers. I'm open for discussion but I've yet to see anything convincing
from the snp, it send to be all playground politics.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 11:42 AM |
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I'm voting no as will my dog
All they go on about is the oil blah blah
This is like for hundreds of years to come and if Scotland got into trouble and wanted to re-join the UK there's no chance the other countries
would say yes!
Creates more problems short and long term than it remotely solves. Just a few big ego politian’s trying desperately to get power and notoriety. Whole
thing is a dumb idea in the first place
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mcerd1
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 12:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
all the folk you see being interviewed about it say yes and seem to ignore the fact that the only thing that comes out of AS's mouth is
'that's just scare tactics' and no actual answers.
that pretty much sums the man up, lots of noise and no answers - I really don't know why anyone listens to him....
the whole idea behind getting 16 year olds to vote is because they recon it'll be easier to talk them into a yes vote without them asking
awkward questions like 'how much will it cost?'
[Edited on 7/7/2014 by mcerd1]
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Slater
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 12:40 PM |
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If the Scots do vote Yes, I wonder what langauge they will use after the split.......... surely they won't continue to use ENGLISH!!!
I actually think it's a load of hot air created by Alex Salmond trying to get into the history books and most folk will see the light and vote
No. It will be a huge mistake for Scotland to split from UK.
I can't vote as I moved to SA 4 yrs ago.
Why do they call Port Harcourt "The Garden City"?...... Becauase they can't spell Stramash.
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woodster
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 02:52 PM |
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i don't get the whole independance thing isn't it old fashioned the rest of europes making closer ties , the euro, open boarders, free
trade etc .......only england and scotland could be going the other way .... laughable really
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 05:53 PM |
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No woodster, not quite the same thing. The rest of the world is not combining to one single government.
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Simon
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 06:43 PM |
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As I mentioned somewhere, I hope the Union stays intact but with some eventual changes. For Scotland/Wales and NI to be governed by Westminster is
mad, which means a few changes - so certain thing should be "federal/unionistic" - and some things national.
If Scotland does decide to leave, that'll be 47 labour mp's who will no longer be voting in the HoP as they won't have jobs there;
consequently Nick Clegg and his merry band of political agnostics won't be required to form a government. Which will keep me very happy
indeed.
Silver linings and all that.
ATB
Simon
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Sam_68
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 07:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon
For Scotland/Wales and NI to be governed by Westminster is mad...
Why, exactly?
I don't see anyone saying that it's 'mad' for Texas, California and Alaska to be governed from Washington, or that it's
illogical that China can be a global power because it's 'mad' for such a large country to be ruled from one capital at Beijing.
I'm with Woodster, broadly speaking: the long term historical trend has been for humanity to form ever larger political units as its
communications capabilities develop, from family units of hunter-gatherers, through villages, tribes, kingdoms and empires to the modern superpowers
and continental federations.
We now have virtually instantaneous global communications. There's no reason not to be thinking in terms of global economics and global
political unions.
Logic suggests that the way forward to peace, prosperity and understanding on what we now know to be a very small planet with finite resources is ever
broader unions that share those resources more evenly and equally. The current trend for fragmentation back to smaller, historic kingdoms is a
temporary and irrational aberration, in my opinion.
If you want 'mad', look for a reactionary, inward-looking and unsustainably small economy (with a monumental chip on its shoulder), being
ruled from Edinburgh or Cardiff.
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Simon
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 10:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68
quote:
Originally posted by Simon
For Scotland/Wales and NI to be governed by Westminster is mad...
Why, exactly?
I don't see anyone saying that it's 'mad' for Texas, California and Alaska to be governed from Washington, or that it's
illogical that China can be a global power because it's 'mad' for such a large country to be ruled from one capital at Beijing.
Er, because England, Scotland, Wales and NI form the Union being 4 separate countries. The United States is one country, China is one country. I have
no issue with the size of the country or the location of its capital.
ATB
Simon
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jeffw
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 05:29 AM |
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And if you step back a little further you have Mercia, Wessex etc etc....your argument means that Wessex should be ruled from Winchester again by the
King of Wessex?
Also Northern Ireland was never a separate country (Ireland was invaded in 1177 by the Normans so came under 'English' control) and Wales
has been ruled by the English crown for a lot longer than Scotland (1282 compared with the act of union on 1707).
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Sam_68
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 06:15 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon
Er, because England, Scotland, Wales and NI form the Union being 4 separate countries. The United States is one country, China is one
country.
See Jeff's response.
Also, China was once upon a time forged from a number of different tribal kingdoms, and the US (after being stolen from its native peoples) once
consisted of a number of colonies founded by different European nations.
The concept of 'nationality' is entirely artificial. Go back more than a few centuries and no-one living here would have had any concept
of being 'English' (the very term dates back to a post-Roman invasion), Welsh or Scots.
The cynical amongst us would say that, like organised religion, nationality is largely a con trick to control a gullible populace - to encourage them
to give allegiance, pay taxes and, when necessary, lay down their lives in war for people who are not their betters, but seek to control them.
So I ask again, why is it mad for a small island such as the UK to be managed by a single government.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 07:32 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68
I don't see anyone saying that it's 'mad' for Texas, California and Alaska to be governed from Washington
try telling that to a Texan
the whole point of the USA is that the states retain a degree of autonomy
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tegwin
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 07:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68
I don't see anyone saying that it's 'mad' for Texas, California and Alaska to be governed from Washington
try telling that to a Texan
the whole point of the USA is that the states retain a degree of autonomy
Autonomy yes.... Devolved government etc but separate county most definitely not!
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www.verticalhorizonsmedia.tv
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