I'm starting to think about putting a zetec into my Locost. This is probably going to be a long-term project, i.e. getting the bits together that
I need, cleaning everything up, then cutting over at the last moment. The aim would be to work in easy stages, using the engine as near to standard
as possible (original ECU, possibly) then work up to an Emerald or Megatune later.
Trouble is, I have no idea about which zetec to go for! Personal preference is for a 2.0, but I hear that a 1.8 is easier to find and tune, according
to rumour. Also, I believe that there a varieties of each size (black top?) so that's another confusion.
Some guidance would be appreciated... also some idea of price would be useful...
cheers,
David
BTW: Message for Hellfire - no, I can't afford a bike engine! (and I like having a reverse) 
Also, note that the Blacktop is the better Zetec engine, but it was only made post 95. If you still have to SVA then you will need to fit a CAT to the
engine and run throttle bodies to get through emissions. If you are post SVA I would go 2.0 blacktop (well, I have!!).
Mark.
The sumps are different - some need cutting or changing and some don't.
I'm going to be fitting a 1.8 blacktop from a Focus and the sump is short enough not to need cutting down.
[Whether it need baffling is another matter]
stu
I'm building from scratch, using a 2.0 1999 Blacktop, and I'm going to run it on GSXR Throttle bodies. God knows whether I'll get
insured or not as I'm only 19!!! I paid £250 for the engine, its under average miles (mondeo btw), but it might be cheaper to buy the whole car.
The Blacktop engines don't use Hydraulic tappets, like the Silvertops, and from what i've read the blacktop is better. SVA wise though as
said you will need injection and cat. A good site to help is here:
www.zetec-cat.co.uk
hth
Matt
[Edited on 24/10/06 by MattCraneCustoms]
so why is the 1.8 easier to fit than a 2.0l ?
i have seen this a few times now?
as i have both engines and both blocks are the same. so what the differance
cheers paul
See this thread about 1.8 vs 2.0 fitting.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=45632
The differences are fairly trivial by the looks of things, but the 1.8 is very slightly easier.
[Edited on 24/10/06 by iank]
so just as i thought !
water pump, but thats not a problem,
if you can build a 7 you can change a water pump or even just add an extra pully
I intended fitting a zetec to my car this winter, but having bought an 1800 zetec I have found that it will need a new bonnet and nose cone to fit it
into the engine bay. Mine is an 1800 from an escort and has a sump of about 170mm depth and overall height is well above the existing nosecone if
fitted to give more than 2 inches of sump clearance..
I think i can reduce the sump a little further but will need to modify the nosecone to clear the cam belt etc as it is just overlapping the front of
the engine .If you have your engine mounted further back you may be able to get away with just a modified bonnet and reduced ground clearance compared
to the crossflow.
A 2 litre will need a lighter flywheel and an 1800 water pump fitting as welllas having a deeper sump fitted as standard.
They seem to go well fitted with bike carbs and megajolt ignition or you could fit megasquirt .
Paul.
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
I'm starting to think about putting a zetec into my Locost. This is probably going to be a long-term project, i.e. getting the bits together that I need, cleaning everything up, then cutting over at the last moment.
David Jenkins - 24/10/06 at 03:36 PMOK - thanks for all that - just a few more questions/comments...
* OK - I got my Megasquirt mixed up with my Megatune.
* SVA isn't an issue any more.
* What cars had the blacktop?
* Aren't there some engines called "Zetec" that are actually something else? All part of Ford's confusing marketing strategy?
* Are there any other common car engines that are a simpler replacement for a crossflow? (size-wise, mostly)
David
iank - 24/10/06 at 03:55 PMquote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
OK - thanks for all that - just a few more questions/comments...
* OK - I got my Megasquirt mixed up with my Megatune.
* SVA isn't an issue any more.
* What cars had the blacktop?
* Aren't there some engines called "Zetec" that are actually something else? All part of Ford's confusing marketing strategy?
* Are there any other common car engines that are a simpler replacement for a crossflow? (size-wise, mostly)
David
I remember some Zetecs being labeled duratec by ford marketing. The Zetec-SE is a competely different engine though so be careful there. Some cars that have zetec badges don't have zetec engines as it also seems to have been confused as a trim level by the men in small rectangular glasses.
Nothing simpler/cheaper than a zetec I think.
PPC has news that Rally Design now has a cheap (£120) bellhousing that bolts duratecs to type 9 gearboxes so I suspect those are going to get much more popular soon. Not on their website yet though.
MikeRJ - 24/10/06 at 04:36 PMA CVH or Pinto may fit, but the Zetec is by far the newest engine design.
Note that the 1.8 also has a lighter flywheel, the 2.0 has a somewhat lazy pickup because of this.
Tha blacktop is harder to fit in general due tothe water pump that runs the wrong way. There is no alternative "backwards" water pump for the black top engine so an idler pulley has to be used to run the belt correctly.
http://www.westfieldbuild.net/module3.php
SeaBass - 24/10/06 at 04:37 PMI'm in the middle of a swap at the moment. My main concern is finding out whether I can squeeze the height under the bonnet.
I've got some ZX12 TB's to put on with an Emerald ECU.
Ford have kept up the 'Zetec' moniker on the rear of many cars in the range but snuck other engines under the bonnet - eg the Fiesta.
I'll second the fact that the zetec cat site has all the information you need pretty much!!
Cheers
SeaBass - 24/10/06 at 04:40 PMquote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Tha blacktop is harder to fit in general due tothe water pump that runs the wrong way. There is no alternative "backwards" water pump for the black top engine so an idler pulley has to be used to run the belt correctly.
You can get an impeller from the states to correct this problem - but come on a bracket and idler is not exactly difficult to fabricate. If you get the engine from the scrapper and it has an air-con compressor you get a free idler as part of the serpentine belt arrangement anyway.
Danozeman - 24/10/06 at 05:08 PMDave. I would go 2.0 black top from a focus or newer mondeo. Running bike throttle bodies with megasquirt n spark. That will see you very decent power.
IIRC your bonnet and scuttle are quite low?? U may struggle to fit under it they are low. Iv had to fit Velocity body work to mine to give me the room.
JackNco - 24/10/06 at 05:48 PMthis may be a stupid question but whats the difference between a pre 95 zetec and a Blacktop?
If its significant is it possible to simply swap the head for a blacktop at a later date?
John
stevebubs - 24/10/06 at 05:57 PMDeep breath......
if you're buying kit car parts off the shelf, most of them are designed for the silvertop.
Key installation differences between silvertop and blacktop:
Blacktop sump is much easier to mod at home as it has a steel lower section. Note - if you lower the sump, you will need to shorten the pickup and there are 2 types - one plastic, one metal.
water pump is also different to the silvertop. I source an impellor from Quicksilver Race Engines in the US without any difficulty and got a local CNC place to make up a conversion plate to enable me to mount the 1.8 silvertop pulley onto the blacktop pump. Would suggest contacting westfield about a bolt-on idler pulley, though - rumour has it they have started making them now and saves this work.
For injection, I used GSXR750 Throttlebodies with Emerald but you should be able to use the std injection system. Would suggest that the early silvertop system would be easiest to install as it doesn't have the security "features" of the later cars. Not sure if the silvertop injection system will work on the blacktop. Don't see why not, though - although you'll probably have to swap the thermostat housing over to a silvertop one (I recommend you do this anyhow as it gives you a 3/8npt connector for aftermarket clocks)
Water rail? Not really needed - you can plumb around this.
Exhaust? Engine Mounts? Interchangeable but you'll need a cat if the engine was manufactured post Aug 95
Clutch is the same regardless - I used a dunnell kit - lightened 1.8 flywheel converted to use a pinto clutch (don't forget the spigot bearing).
Alternator? I've used a silvertop alternator bodged onto mondeo blacktop mounts. Watch out for escort engines - they have the alternator strung way out west on the exhaust side.
Starter motor - with my 1.8 flywheel, I've successfully used a 1.8 CVH Sierra starter.
Internally, the blacktop pistons are teflon coated and the tappets are shimmed not hydraulic. As a result of this, the 2.0 blacktop supposedly good for 10bhp over 2.0 silvertop but seen no empirical proof of this. Piston spacing is supposedly different so you can't put a blacktop head on a silvertop block.
Stephen
(blacktop happily installed for 2 years now)
[Edited on 24/10/06 by stevebubs]
stevebubs - 24/10/06 at 06:00 PMquote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
There is no alternative "backwards" water pump for the black top engine so an idler pulley has to be used to run the belt correctly.
Yes there is but it's not a ford part. Quicksilver in the US make them for the us formula ford builders. I have one fitted.
JackNco - 24/10/06 at 06:03 PMhey cheers for that
so no point trying to make a hybrid of it then as it just wont work. ill stick to silver top then.
Cheers for the advice
John
zetec - 24/10/06 at 08:45 PMThe good news with the earlier engine is that they have been fitted to loads of kitcars by loads of different companies so there are off the shelf parts to make fitting easier. I got a 2ltr as it was the same price and no different to fit, I would have changed the waterpump on a s/h engine in any case. The earlier 1 piece sump is not hard to mod, just chop a bit of the back and add a bit to the front to retain 5ltr oil capacity. the later engine I think involves some choping to get the starter to fit with a RWD gearbox. Let me know if you want any pics to compare with the later engine.
stevebubs - 26/10/06 at 12:22 AMquote:
Originally posted by zetec
The good news with the earlier engine is that they have been fitted to loads of kitcars by loads of different companies so there are off the shelf parts to make fitting easier. I got a 2ltr as it was the same price and no different to fit, I would have changed the waterpump on a s/h engine in any case. The earlier 1 piece sump is not hard to mod, just chop a bit of the back and add a bit to the front to retain 5ltr oil capacity. the later engine I think involves some choping to get the starter to fit with a RWD gearbox. Let me know if you want any pics to compare with the later engine.
Chopping for starter clearance is literally just using the angry grinder to remove some fins...no biggie. Prior to going down the zetec route, I had no real metal working experience. £150 was well spent on a local college course which gave me the facility to make parts on the lathe, access to TIG, MIG and oxy-acetelyne welders *and* have someone on call to answer my questions and show me where I was going wrong.
That 10 week course (2.5hrs / wk) enabled me to pretty much fabricate everything I needed for the install.
Loads of pics on http://gallery.cantcatchme.net/
[Edited on 26/10/06 by stevebubs]