Dangle_kt
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| posted on 31/7/09 at 04:43 PM |
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Steve - that works in the world of manufacuring as you can get to 1 deviation per 10,000 or whatever your target is - in the majority of other
industry that is simply not the case.
there are probably 5% of jobs within the uk economy that are as simple or structured to allow that sort of planning.
Simple fact is, if everything were that straightforward then there would be 90% less managers in the country - cos you need managers to manage
situations/people/processes etc.
You could front load every job with a consultant telling you the inputs, outputs and propose a scedule for work - but it would cost a hell of a lot
more than most posts are worth.
quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
quote:
Originally posted by Sam
quote:
In my opinion, the best and simplest way to reduce travelling and congestion would be for government to pressure companies (maybe through the tax
system) into making working from home the norm for many. For many whose jobs cannot be done from home, travel could be greatly eased by a presumption
of a right to flexible working, allowing work hours to be fitted to travel options. That would leave only those whose work has to be performed at
specific locations and times needing to travel during the busy periods.
Goverment put pressure on companies maybe through the tax system !!! Don't you think they do that enough, obviously not in business !
Working from home, targets !! Targets smargets what a joke !!
Flexible hours !! Not practical, I want people in work when I can see what there doing. i.e doing my hours !!
Give an inch and most people take a mile. One in a million might actually have the ethics to put in a full days work when no ones watching ! Dont
suggest companies bear more of the brunt for poor politics !! GGGrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
This is exactly the problem I'm talking about - most management want people where they can see them, during specific hours. During those hours
they can do a certain quantity of work, but often this is not measured, only the time they spend there. As long as that work quantity is known and
targets can be set, why does it matter where and when they work, as long as the correct quantity and quality of work is completed?
I design industrial control systems, my input is specifications, data sheets, standards, drawings, etc. and my output is similar. At the stage of
quoting for a contract, the planners cost out the hours needed and produce a schedule. As long as I can complete my work to their schedule, why does
anyone need to see me sat a particular desk from 9 to 5 each day? Indeed two design jobs that I completed were quoted by myself as fixed price
contracts, where and when I worked was up to me - in fact one of them was completed in the evenings in a hotel room when I had sod all else to do as I
was working away long term for a different company. The work was completed to schedule and handed over, no supervision necessary, no monitoring of
hours, no clocking in and out. Simply setting and meeting of a target.
Where work is of a type that can be done this way (and much office work is), there would be many benefits *to* companies - happier workforce, less
office space required, less heating/cooling, smaller car parks required, etc. Government taxation to push this would have to be targetted not to
damage businesses, it would have to be punish companies that unecessarily insisted on old-fashioned office setups where homeworking was a sensible
option - working on a cost neutral basis.
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trextr7monkey
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| posted on 31/7/09 at 05:02 PM |
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The joke here (if there is one!) is that the motorist is paying for public transport - ie the very people that don't need it- the council should
be paying for the trams with their money from Central Government.
Just need to combine this with a tax on Sorn'd vehicles to increase their income - it is an extension of the same principle.
Hopefully the people of Nottingham can express their views through a ballot box, assuming they still hold elections down there
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14016102@N00/ (cut and paste this dodgey link)
Our most recent pics are here:
http://s129.photobucket.com/albums/p211/trextr7monkey/
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SteveWalker
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| posted on 31/7/09 at 05:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dangle_kt
Steve - that works in the world of manufacuring as you can get to 1 deviation per 10,000 or whatever your target is - in the majority of other
industry that is simply not the case.
there are probably 5% of jobs within the uk economy that are as simple or structured to allow that sort of planning.
Simple fact is, if everything were that straightforward then there would be 90% less managers in the country - cos you need managers to manage
situations/people/processes etc.
You could front load every job with a consultant telling you the inputs, outputs and propose a scedule for work - but it would cost a hell of a lot
more than most posts are worth.
quote:
I'm not talking about that sort of planning for every job, that was just an example of why anyone in my line of work (and most of the support
staff required) are not needed to be in the office 9-5, five days a week.
For example, call centre staff do not need to be in a call centre - some do indeed work from home, but why do any actually need to be in a call
centre? They already have targets of so many calls per hour and phone lines and broadband mean work can be carried out anywhere.
There are many others: accountants, solicitors, programmers, telephonists, order clerks, buyers, planners, managers and many more - all could spend at
least part of the week working from home. Even if some could only do one day a week at home, it all adds up. We don't need comprehensive plans
and schedules for all, simple measures of number of calls/letters/orders per month will generally average out any peaks and troughs.
I'm by no means saying that everyone can do this, but we've all seen how traffic improves during the school holidays.
For most things that absolutely need a presence in the office, the next non-home day will do or in an emergency someone else will do it, just like
they have to to cover holidays and absences.
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snapper
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| posted on 31/7/09 at 05:59 PM |
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quote:
Theresa Villiers, the Tory transport spokesman, accused the Government of hitting businesses with new taxes.
I take it from this comment that as the Tories will get in easily at the next election that this tax will be lost.
Hope so my office is in the country with no appreciable public transport has 300 + people on site with hundreds of visitors on an 800 acre site.
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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clbarclay
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| posted on 31/7/09 at 07:06 PM |
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Well they might class it as an old take by the time they get in
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clbarclay
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| posted on 31/7/09 at 07:23 PM |
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Personally I don't like commuting. I spent a year doing it on placement with a 1.5 hr round commute and the only real alternative would have
been to pay a lot more for rented accomidation in gin and jaguar rural villages near work so that I could cycle.
Working at home was not an option there because most people worked on an assembly line and as an engineer, time spent on the shop floor is
invaluable.
Like I say, I don't like commuting, but its part of the nature of this countries ecconomy which is going to take more than taxing* to change.
*it may lead to increased investment in public transport to compensate, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
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JoelP
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| posted on 31/7/09 at 08:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by edspurrier
As soon as they make my 50 mile drive to work possible on public transport I'll give it a go. Until then their parking tax theivery can be
placed smewhere dark
Hope that doesn’t mean using the bus? Cos then you you’ll seen how much using the bus costs these days. To get to my work which is a 20 minute journey
on the bike, 40 minutes in the car, takes 2hrs on a public bus, using 4 busses a day! Most of the time your standing, it’s freezing in the winter and
I mean inside the busses. Noisier and more uncomfortable than an old landrover, and for that it cost £60 a week in fares  bl$$dy rip off
[Edited on 31/7/09 by Mr Whippy]
Me and the wife got a bus home from town the other night, came to a fiver! Taxi would only be about £7 And we had to walk half a mile at the end!
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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blakep82
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 12:54 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
hmmm...
seems the government would rather no one went to work!
Or..........if they cant have all your money , then neither can you 
My 10 minute drive to work would take more than an hour by bus , and would include a mile or so of walking.......
my 10 minute drive to work would be 25minutes completely the wrong direction into greenock, change bus (don't know how long i'd be
waiting, or if they even go to the same stop) then back down to gourock again. wou;d be at least an hour
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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bigpig
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 08:59 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
This is exactly the problem I'm talking about - most management want people where they can see them, during specific hours. During those hours
they can do a certain quantity of work, but often this is not measured, only the time they spend there. As long as that work quantity is known and
targets can be set, why does it matter where and when they work, as long as the correct quantity and quality of work is completed?
We have a similar issue. The problem is people taking the p!ss out of the working from home option (not always the staff either)
We do allow working from how for specific tasks (e.g. writing up performance reviews when you just want to sit away from distractions), but before
hand a brief summary of what the task is and the expected outcomes are required & evidence that either a) its been done or b) why it didn't
get completed.
This way its all above board.
Of course it requires a bit more effort from the management than producing and sitting around watching power point presentations.
This is local gov rather than private sector. In the private sector I found it very anti working from home (probably becuase you couldn't
present it in power point).
As for communting to work, I generally cycled and used a motorcycle when it was raining. Usually work was within about 6 miles or so from home (so
about 30 to 45 minutes cycle ride).
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woodster
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 09:40 AM |
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this has nothing to do with saving the planet and everything to do with taxation..... as this labour government and Gordan Clown become more and more
desperate for money the taxes will come thick and fast ........ remember vote labour you get spend spend spend and tax tax tax ... like a druggy with
a nicked credit card .......... time for us all to take to the streets and say NO
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woodster
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| posted on 1/8/09 at 09:44 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by edspurrier
As soon as they make my 50 mile drive to work possible on public transport I'll give it a go. Until then their parking tax theivery can be
placed smewhere dark
Hope that doesn’t mean using the bus? Cos then you you’ll seen how much using the bus costs these days. To get to my work which is a 20 minute journey
on the bike, 40 minutes in the car, takes 2hrs on a public bus, using 4 busses a day! Most of the time your standing, it’s freezing in the winter and
I mean inside the busses. Noisier and more uncomfortable than an old landrover, and for that it cost £60 a week in fares bl$$dy rip off
[Edited on 31/7/09 by Mr Whippy]
Me and the wife got a bus home from town the other night, came to a fiver! Taxi would only be about £7 And we had to walk half a mile at the end!
totally agree me the mrs £1.40 each for a mile trip from the pub then 5min walk
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 3/8/09 at 08:17 AM |
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personally a bus home from town (about 2 miles) for me and swmbo would cost more than a taxi
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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wilkingj
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| posted on 3/8/09 at 12:53 PM |
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The Whole problem is MUCH SIMPLER.
There are just TOO MANY PEOPLE in the world today.
This is what is causing the problem, and it will not go away.
When I was a kid there were 4Bn in the world, now 60 years later there are 6Bn.
Until the population growth is brought under control, all these problems including starvation, war, etc etc etc will never be solved.
Only the Chinese have tackled the problem, and in doing so have created otyher problems. At least they are trying to do something.
Other than that, this scheme is just another stealth tax, by a Gov't than needs to raise more money than it says it needs.
Glad I'm nearing retirement age.
Also dont forget the congeation charging schemes that you will have to pass throught to get to your company parking space that you have been taxed to
the hilt for.
There is NO easy answer to the worlds problems that is socially acceptable to the populace. If there was ANY of the political parties would have done
it in a flash, and guaranteed themselves another term in office.
</Rant>
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 3/8/09 at 01:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Sam
quote:
Working from home, targets !! Targets smargets what a joke !!
Flexible hours !! Not practical, I want people in work when I can see what there doing. i.e doing my hours !!
It works perfectly well where I work. We all work flexible hours and I can work from home if I arrange it.
If you employ untrustworthy monkeys then perhaps you have a bigger issue than flexible working...
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iti_uk
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| posted on 4/8/09 at 10:25 AM |
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This is one of the many reasons I don't want to live in the UK much longer than I have to.
One day (sooner rather than later I hope), I'd like to move somewhere like Hong Kong, where people don't need cars at all, the public
transport is so cheap and convenient, and makes our system look completely medieval. I'd still take a car over there (preferrably my KLMX-5),
but it would become a toy rather than a commuting necessity.
And on top of that, the roads around HK are pretty good and have some fun twisties occasionally which would be nice to blat along. Most other traffic
on the road is either taxis, busses and lorries.
And the weather's nicer :p
And living costs are lower (apart from housing).
And food's better, cheaper and the shops open later.
Hmm... plans....
England's a great country, it's just the tossers who are in charge which are the problem!
JMHO
Chris
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 4/8/09 at 10:32 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iti_uk
England's a great country, it's just the tossers who are in charge which are the problem!
A good summary. Given any problem, the current government will try to use taxation to solve it. One trick ponies who are hopefully heading toward
the slaughter house ASAP.
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iti_uk
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| posted on 4/8/09 at 02:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
A good summary. Given any problem, the current government will try to use taxation to solve it. One trick ponies who are hopefully heading toward
the slaughter house ASAP.
Agreed!
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MautoK
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| posted on 8/8/09 at 08:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iti_uk
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
A good summary. Given any problem, the current government will try to use taxation to solve it. One trick ponies who are hopefully heading toward
the slaughter house ASAP.
Agreed!
+1
...a bit late; been on holiday (without the PC)! 
He's whittling on a piece of wood. I got a feeling that when he stops whittling, something's gonna happen. (OUATITW/Cheyenne)
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wicket
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| posted on 8/8/09 at 09:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveFJ
If my daily 2 mile commute didnt cost at least 10 times the cost in petrol i would be interested!!!
if they dont invest in public transport and make it affordable then it will never work.
[Edited on 31-7-09 by DaveFJ]
As its only 2 miles why not walk that will cost you nothing !!
[Edited on 8/8/09 by wicket]
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smart51
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| posted on 9/8/09 at 07:08 AM |
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Reply from my MP
She said it is implemented by the local council in Nottingham and if it were introduced elsewhere, the council would have to apply to do it. She
admitted that there were public transport issues in Birmingham and doubted that even if the council applied for it that they would get it. That, and
there were no plans to do it.
She also questioned the political acumen of such a scheme.
People of nottingham, get out and vote. Or park on the roads instead of the car parks. Bring the city to a halt and then see what the councillors
think.
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iank
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| posted on 9/8/09 at 05:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
... Bring the city to a halt and then see what the councillors think.
Bet they'd be double yellowing the whole city.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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