R1minimagic
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 08:20 PM |
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No i dont work for a charity, but i dont see why i should pay over the odds for something that i dont see as value for money.
If you go back and read my original post it was about how to remove the tyres from the wheels but somehow we have got into a debate about disposal.
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R1minimagic
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 08:25 PM |
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Another thing to think about, do you really think that garages (that have one of the most notorious reputations for ripping people off) would not make
money out of this by some other unscrupulous means? How do you know where the tyres have gone?
The whole idea of this forum is so that people can save money by doing things themselves and helping each other out and to avoid getting everything
done by a garage at extortionate prices. I think everyone has a right to get a good service for their hard earned cash.
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londonsean69
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 08:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by R1minimagic
Ok so if what you are saying is true and there is a 'cost reduction' in producing whatever is produced by using the waste tyres and there
is also a 'cost increase' to the customer that buys the tyre in the first place as they are now paying for disposal, there is a lot of
money both being saved and being made, so it's us the customers (mugs) that are paying for it!
Nope, the cost of production is the same.
The 'whole life' cost is reduced.
If you get a puncture, you don't replace the car. You try and have it repaired. If it's not possible, then the tyre has served
it's useful life (for a car owner)
If that tyre can then be used for something else, like rubber chippings, it saves having to make 'virgin' rubber chippings AND
burning/burying said tyre.
That's where the saving comes in.
I vaguely remember it takes something like 95% less energy to recycle Aluminium, than it does to produce it in the first place.
As an idea of who much energy it takes to make aluminium, many countries ship boatloads of aluminium to Iceland for processing to take advantage of
their cheaper power (they use geothermal energy).
I have to pay 'energy surcharge' when I get welding gas, big deal, it's not much.
Where do you think power companies are getting the money to develop new, cleaner technology?? Rising power bills and government grants, which are your
taxes.
I understand the frustration, in that you think you are paying to have rubbish taken away, but if you want to build a plant to shred tyres then go for
it, it's not cheap.
Companies are soon going to be hit with 'carbon bills' based on the amount of CO2 they produce. This again will lead to increased costs
for just about everything.
It's all our own fault. We wanted everything cheaper/faster/whatever, leading to processes that were not necessarily the best for the long tern
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Steve G
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 08:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by R1minimagic
If you go back and read my original post it was about how to remove the tyres from the wheels but somehow we have got into a debate about disposal.
"then chuck the tyres over next doors fence." See - you started the discussion about disposal on page 1!! 
Simple fact is its just one of a number of "green" measures that have to be paid for one way or another. Whether we see it as value for
money or not is besides the point - its the way things are now (and the penalties for fly tipping are rather large)!! Personally i am all for it and
see it as no different to recycling aluminium, plastics etc from household waste which we pay for through council tax.
I guess your best (cheapest / legal) option looks to be buy some tyre levers and take them to your local recycling centre.
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R1minimagic
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 08:31 PM |
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No company is in business to lose money, they are all making a good profit out of it as you say, that is my point.
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londonsean69
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 08:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by R1minimagic
No i dont work for a charity, but i dont see why i should pay over the odds for something that i dont see as value for money.
If you go back and read my original post it was about how to remove the tyres from the wheels but somehow we have got into a debate about disposal.
Well, £2 for them to get rid of a tyre is not bad value, especially when you consider at the weekends the queue for the dump can be 30 mins. I value
my time at more than £4 and hour.
Then again, chucking it over you neighbours fence only takes a second. Then again, I actually quite like my neighbours.
The reason the thread drifted was your intended method of disposal.
quote:
Originally posted by R1minimagic
Another thing to think about, do you really think that garages (that have one of the most notorious reputations for ripping people off) would not make
money out of this by some other unscrupulous means? How do you know where the tyres have gone?
The whole idea of this forum is so that people can save money by doing things themselves and helping each other out and to avoid getting everything
done by a garage at extortionate prices. I think everyone has a right to get a good service for their hard earned cash.
I have never used a main dealer, only back street type garages, and have never, ever, been ripped off.
As for waste disposal, obviously there will always be dodgy places, same goes for everything.
Despite the mets good intentions there are still bent coppers (apologies to any decent coppers on here).
To be fair, it is actually easier for a tyre place to have someone collect a few hundred tyres, pay them a couple of hundred quid, than take the
time/risk/effort of dumping them. I have no doubt it goes on however.
This forum is about building 'locost' kit cars, although some are not exactly locost. Having said that, there uis a wealth of knowledge
and information on here relating to just about anything.
Your right, you should get what you pay for.
As for your original post, how to get a tyre off......
I removed a pair of motorbike tyres that had been on for 5 years. I used a sharp edged spade to break the seal (the wheels were scrap BTW) then a
pair of 24" tyre levers to do the removal.
However, bikes tyres have a larger sidewall, although it depends upon the profile of the tyre.
Low profiles are a pig, even with the right machine. Took a pair of fitters 15 minutes to get one fitted on my motor (40 profile) an d included
multiple goes at inflating, deflating, beating with big hammers etc.
Still only cost £10 for the full service, valve, balance fitting etc. And disposal was included in the price, now thats value.
Forgot to add, if you choose the "jumping up and down on shovel wedged in the bead" method, make sure the other side of the tyre is tied
down to something. It really hurts when it flips up and smashed you in the shins/knees
[Edited on 13/11/09 by londonsean69]
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R1minimagic
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 08:39 PM |
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That was a joke but it seems to have been wasted on some people!
Simple fact is it's easy to use the guilt angle and make people believe that if they pay X then you are doing your bit for the environment.
All this fuss over vehicles fuel consumption and taxing you for having 250g/km is total nonsense, the savings in CO2 by being made to feel guilty and
buying a new car is a drop in the ocean and will make no difference whatsoever, but people are gullible and they just fall for it. It's all
about making money.
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Steve G
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 08:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by R1minimagic
The whole idea of this forum is so that people can save money by doing things themselves and helping each other out and to avoid getting everything
done by a garage at extortionate prices. I think everyone has a right to get a good service for their hard earned cash.
There's surely a limit to where doing things the cheapest possible way ends though. It'd be cheaper for me to chuck used engine oil down
the drain but i wouldnt do it. Personally i'd rather pay £20 or so to have tyres removed for me knowing my expensive alloys are going to stand
less chance of being damaged rather than spend a couple of hours messing about removing them myself, and i dont have to then drive further afield to
get them disposed of myself.
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londonsean69
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 08:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by R1minimagic
That was a joke but it seems to have been wasted on some people!
Simple fact is it's easy to use the guilt angle and make people believe that if they pay X then you are doing your bit for the environment.
All this fuss over vehicles fuel consumption and taxing you for having 250g/km is total nonsense, the savings in CO2 by being made to feel guilty and
buying a new car is a drop in the ocean and will make no difference whatsoever, but people are gullible and they just fall for it. It's all
about making money.
I smiley after it might have made people see it as a joke, or possibly saying it was a joke a bit earlier in the thread. It's very hard to
express emotion over a voiceless medium such as a forum
It's not all about money. The money that big firms are investing in carbon management is phenomenal. Our company gets some of this money.
The actual cost compared to the long term environmental damage IS a drop in the ocean.
This planet is wrecked.
We ARE running out of oil
Global warming has been accelerated
Natural resources are running out
There are far too many people and the population is growing all the time.
This leads to a huge demand for cheap products. These cheap products are very costly in terms of environmental damage.
I don't feel guilty about the carbon/waste/whatever I produce, but I do try to minimise it, and where I can I use recycled/reclaimed material
(such as a Ford Sierra )
If you really want to, just cut the tyres off with a cutting disc on a grinder, I did this once, it stink as the rubber burns.
Then take said scrap tyres to the tip.
Job done, you're happy because you haven't spent money on having them removed (although it will cost you, electricity bill, time &
petrol)
Everyone else (ie the government and greenies) is happy as they have a tyre to shred and put on a kids playground.
[Edited on 13/11/09 by londonsean69]
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R1minimagic
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 08:45 PM |
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That's not too bad then i suppose.
I don't care about cutting the old tyres up as they are knackered so the thing about breaking the seal maybe doesn't apply, i was
intending to just cut through the wire/metal part with a dremel type small cutting disc, will it work?
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londonsean69
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 08:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by R1minimagic
That's not too bad then i suppose.
I don't care about cutting the old tyres up as they are knackered so the thing about breaking the seal maybe doesn't apply, i was
intending to just cut through the wire/metal part with a dremel type small cutting disc, will it work?
When I did it, the hardest part was the bead. It basically bonds itself onto the rim.
A dremel would take ages. I would use a 4.5" grinder to cut across the tyre, also most of the way down to the rim. Then use the dremel, very
carefully to cut through the bead on the rim. Make sure you don't damage the rim otherwise the new tyres might not seal.
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R1minimagic
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 08:55 PM |
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I am very big on recycling and not wasting anything, what i am averse to is being ripped off (no matter what the absolute cost is, that is irrelevant)
and i get a lot of satisfaction from doing a job myself.
The whole thing about CO2 is another debate and something that people will probably never agree on but I am a scientist with a PhD in Chemistry so you
are wasting your time trying to convince me about any of the environmental stuff. I have worked in the petroleum industry and also in the automotive
industry for a long time so i know all the tricks these companies play whilst still trying to 'look good'
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R1minimagic
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 09:06 PM |
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That is what i meant, just use the dremel on the last bit.
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londonsean69
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 09:09 PM |
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I get a lot of job satisfaction from doing stuff myself, but there are limits. For me at least.
It's your call, but at the end of the day, you need to dispose of that tyre in a way that you are comfortable with.
Personally, for the few minutes it takes a garage to do it for me, I will gladly give them £5 a tyre.
Saves me getting skinned knuckles, bruised shins etc. Plus, I hate queueing for the dump
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R1minimagic
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 09:16 PM |
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I will probably make wallpaper out of it for next years Halloween party..
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MikeR
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 09:21 PM |
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I'd like to have a go and will happily waste a sunny afternoon doing so (haven't bothered yet but have a few tyres to have a go with
soon)
Once i've done it once ...... i'll be in the garage asking someone to do it for me. I'm a bit silly like that, i like to know how
much of a bargain i'm getting by wasting my life trying it once.
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R1minimagic
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 09:33 PM |
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Same here, it's not always about the money but the enjoyment you get out of it. There's no harm trying it once and making an idiot out of
yourself, it's all a learning experience!
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zilspeed
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 10:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bmseven
You can break the seal by gently driving over the tyre,,,,make sure you miss the rim
[Edited on 13/11/09 by bmseven]
Ohh, that takes me back.
that's a technique that my late father used to use all the time to change tyres or fix punctures.
A rubber mallet is also handy for 'encouraging' the tyre over the rim to finally get it off. That and a couple of tyres levers of course.
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R1minimagic
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 10:24 PM |
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Would big spoons work?
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adithorp
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 10:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by R1minimagic
Another thing to think about, do you really think that garages (that have one of the most notorious reputations for ripping people off) would not make
money out of this by some other unscrupulous means? How do you know where the tyres have gone?
The whole idea of this forum is so that people can save money by doing things themselves and helping each other out and to avoid getting everything
done by a garage at extortionate prices. I think everyone has a right to get a good service for their hard earned cash.
Well I was going to say if you bring them around to work on a Saturday morning I'd take them off for you... but I don't think I will now.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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R1minimagic
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 10:55 PM |
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No offence intended to you in any way but it is not my fault they have that reputation.
If we knew what it was we were doing it wouldn't be called research would it!
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londonsean69
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 11:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by R1minimagic
Would big spoons work?
lol
TBH, for someone who is meant to have a PHD in Chemistry, you are actually pretty stupid.
We have a lot of engineers at work like that, PHD in fluid dynamics, that sort of nonsense, yet can barely tie their shoe laces.
I think working in any sort of industrial environment with you would actually be downright dangerous. I do hope you are confined to a little blast
proof corner of a lab somewhere
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prawnabie
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 11:24 PM |
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I charge the same to fit a tyre to a bare rim as I do to remove and fit a new one. I have the tyre machine so its my right to charge what I like for
the service.
Im sure it would be the same is the boot was on the other foot too!
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R1minimagic
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 11:43 PM |
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You got it wrong there mate, you just happen to have no sense of humour, so tell me why big spoons wouldn't work..
If we knew what it was we were doing it wouldn't be called research would it!
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prawnabie
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| posted on 13/11/09 at 11:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by R1minimagic
You got it wrong there mate, you just happen to have no sense of humour, so tell me why big spoons wouldn't work..
ask uri geller?
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