albertz
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| posted on 9/12/09 at 09:09 PM |
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Abandoning Griffin going to Thottle Bodies advice?
Over the past couple of years i have installed a new blacktop Zetec in my Locost and bought the Griffin injection kit with Omex ECU. For one reason or
another (mainly building a house and starting a new business) i have not had much time with the car. In fact the new engine is probably still below
200 miles running.
However, I have never managed to get the engine running right, not sure exactly what the problem is but it runs rough and really rich. I have asked on
here (and with Griffin themselves) a few times but never really got to the bottom of the problem (see links below). So i am considering pulling it out
and converting to bike throttle bodies....which leads to my question;
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=113874
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=113454
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=111868
What would be involved in replacing the Griffin system with a different inlet manifold and a set of bike throttle bodies? manifold, throttle bodies,
sensors? etc
Which throttle bodies are considered best? what would be a fair price for a set and what about the manifold?
Would the ECU need a custom map, even just to get it runnning halfways decent - my nearest rolling road is probably at least 200 miles away! but could
be used if necessary.
Any thoughts, comments or advice much appreciated.
[Edited on 9/12/09 by albertz]
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gregs
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| posted on 9/12/09 at 09:13 PM |
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don't fall into the trap of changing stuff coz you can't get your current to work.... itb's bring in a whole extra set of
variables to go wrong...
Just focus your time on fixing the system you've got, go back to basics, is your fuelling system correct?, pressure correct?, are all cylinders
overfuelling or just one/two?, is it overfuelling in all conditions or just at some revs etc?
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Werner Van Loock
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| posted on 9/12/09 at 09:29 PM |
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he says, throttle bodies will make it even more difficult, nothing wrong with the griffin setup.
How are the injectors? Have you got another set to try? Have you tried running it without lambda correction, so that it stays with the current map.
Have you tried a rolling road? They might be able to set it up in a giffy.
http://www.clubstylus.be
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stuart_g
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| posted on 9/12/09 at 10:30 PM |
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See my thread I put on here a couple of days ago. I am doing exactly what you are thinking of.
Griffin to TB's thread
I too phoned Griffin and got no help what so ever. He couldn't answer any questions I had even on basic plumbing the system up. It took the
bloke a week and a couple more calls from me for him to even reply to my email and send me a base startup map.
The bloke in my opinion is a complete waste of space and I have no intension of using and promoting his product if this is the support you get.
I also think the power claim of 160bhp with this system is very optomistic on a standard engine.
I have also been having email communication with Omex who I have to say are the dogs dangly bits, their support is how it should be, quick and very
informative. I emailed Omex the other day telling them I am changing to bike TB's and asked a couple of questions on cold starting with the
TB's and would they have a base map they could send me so I can get it running. Within the hour I had a map from a car with 2.0l zetec that had
been fully mapped running Jenvey's admittedly it is not going to be a map that I will not have to alter but it will be fairly close and a
starting point, also included in the email was a very detailed instruction on how to identify what pins do what on the TPS sensor on the bike
TB's so I can wire it up correctly to the Omex ECU. I never even asked anything about this and was going to have to find the information from a
workshop manual for the bike the TB's came from, now I don't even have to do that.
With the help of Omex I got my Griffin system running fairly well. I had to alter the map that was in the ecu when I bought the car quite a bit to get
it to work though. It always seemed that the engine still needed more air than what the bleed screw would allow.
The TB's I am using are from a GSXR 750 SRAD model of around 1999. I chose these as they do not have the secondary butterflies to remove and
block the holes up. They are 48mm inlet reducing down to 40mm on the outlet side which is perfect for a standard 2.0l silvertop.
I can't see how TB's will make it more dificult. If anything it should be easier as you have more adjustment on them over the standard TB
from the mondeo/escort the Griffin system uses.
The only down side I see with bike TB's is that the induction will be noiser compared to the Griffin setup. I plan to make my own airbox to
overcome this issue.
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Myke 2463
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| posted on 10/12/09 at 08:57 AM |
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There are several R/R's in Scotland, just google rolling roads in scotland as i did. Griffin will never produce the same power as T/B's,
140bhp V 170bhp. A good RR technician should have the Griffin / Omex running sweeter than when it was set up by ford in a couple of hours.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 10/12/09 at 09:05 AM |
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Pretty much as outlined above............
I have never used one of those griffin intakes, but to me they look like a bag of ****
HOWEVER, regardless, the engine WILL run fine on it, its nothing whatsoever to do with the inlet, and almost certainly just in need of proper
mapping.
Changing to throttle bodies would be "nice" but won't solve your problem, and would need remapping anyway.
The answer is to make your descision about the throttle bodies or not (and they are never a bad idea if you can afford them) but ALWAYS allow £300 in
your budget for a rolling road session.
Again, somebody that says they can map it for £100 is probably a liar, and those that ask £700 are pushing their luck, £300 seems a sensible budget
that allows enough time for a really good operator to do a normally aspirated map on a reliable engine that will already start and warm up
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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