pewe
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| posted on 20/7/14 at 10:53 AM |
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Whereabouts in Italy are you?
If South West near France try the Cenis Pass above Susa, West of Turin - great road.
Also the road up to Sestriere from Pinerola is worth the detour.
Also from Briancon South East the Col d'Izoard which they've just done on the Tour de France yesterday looks epic!
Making me quite envious but we're there in Sept for GP Nuvolari so our time will come.
Enjoy.
Cheers, Pewe10
[Edited on 20/7/14 by pewe]
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clairetoo
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| posted on 20/7/14 at 12:36 PM |
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I'm currently near Cavalese (between Bolzano and Trento) - there are literally dozens of small passes around here - everything from fast and
scary , to narrow and very scary ! I went over Passo Duran the other day - most of it is no more than single lane , lots of blind humps and tight
corners.........
The Stelvio has to be the best so far - dozens of second gear hairpins , good job I fitted a big brake conversion before I went.....still managed to
turn all four discs blue though !
And one thing has pleased me - I removed the power steering when I did the engine swap - and havnt missed it at all .
Happy days !
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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Ivan
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| posted on 20/7/14 at 05:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
That's interesting, was it worse during hot weather?
I did have an Autograss car once that had a noisy pump, on the dyno the tank did get warm to touch (small one gallon ally tank) it was fitted with a
Bosch 044 pump, the engine (Honda vtec) made 235bhp so the pump was well over rated.
Just out of interest we decided to fit a pump resistor (0.47ohm) this dropped the pump supply from 14v to 12v with engine running. The pump went
quite.
Yes it largely occurs in hot weather >30C, of course in those conditions the tar roads become very hot and radiate heat up to the tank and car
under-body possibly making things worse.
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clairetoo
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| posted on 20/7/14 at 07:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ivan
quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
That's interesting, was it worse during hot weather?
I did have an Autograss car once that had a noisy pump, on the dyno the tank did get warm to touch (small one gallon ally tank) it was fitted with a
Bosch 044 pump, the engine (Honda vtec) made 235bhp so the pump was well over rated.
Just out of interest we decided to fit a pump resistor (0.47ohm) this dropped the pump supply from 14v to 12v with engine running. The pump went
quite.
Yes it largely occurs in hot weather >30C, of course in those conditions the tar roads become very hot and radiate heat up to the tank and car
under-body possibly making things worse.
That was largly my point - in very hot conditions , and with sustained driving , everything gets hot.........just sitting in the car stationary was
almost unbearable , and I think there is a major heat buildup (something you could never replicate on a simple rolling road - even major car
manufactures take there new cars out to the dessert to test for this sort of thing)
So.......back to the whole point of the thread - some kind of fuel cooler - good or bad idea ? It cant do any harm , surely ?
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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Ivan
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| posted on 21/7/14 at 07:35 AM |
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I agree Claire - fuel cooler is a good thing - even on the hot days it will pull some excess heat out of the fuel if it's in the air stream, but
put it as close to the tank as possible to stop radiant heat from the road getting back into the fuel in those very hot conditions. Also make sure its
safe from strikes from tyre thrown stones.
Another choice is welding, or brazing, or soldering, some long fins onto the return line. Maybe use a copper line with fins soldered on.
[Edited on 21/7/14 by Ivan]
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 21/7/14 at 07:46 AM |
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I think there are spare analogue inputs on megasquirt that can be configured as temperature inputs, would be interesting to log the fuel temp of the
return line while driving?
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 21/7/14 at 12:18 PM |
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TBH I'm surprised most normal cars don't risk that with high temp use - ethanol boils at ~late 70sC, petrol at 95ish C (when not under
pressure) - I reckon it's pretty close in normal conditions with the position and lack of cooling available to more fuel rails.
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clairetoo
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| posted on 21/7/14 at 02:58 PM |
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I'm also thinking another cause of my problem may be the V6 - Mx5's don't have an exhaust on the righthand side of the car where the
fuel lines run........
Plenty of time to think today.....been raining non-stop , and the promised fuel pump didn't turn up.......
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 21/7/14 at 03:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
TBH I'm surprised most normal cars don't risk that with high temp use - ethanol boils at ~late 70sC, petrol at 95ish C (when not under
pressure) - I reckon it's pretty close in normal conditions with the position and lack of cooling available to more fuel rails.
If the fuel system is incorrectly sized, or a poor quality pump is used, its more likely to be susceptible to high fuel temps causing an issue - fuel
is harder to pump when warm - I cant see fuel ever boiling unless the pump starts to cavitate which should cause the pump to get very hot then maybe
the fuel within the pump could boil.
I have seen a pump burn out (so hot you can't touch it) when it's in lockout due to high fuel pressure - as the fuel in recirc so no
cooing medium for the pump.
It would be interesting to actually monitor the fuel temps, maybe the return from the engine and the input to the pump.
Unless its knakered, you wouldn't expect the actual pump to add much heat to the fuel, assuming 50% efficiency no more than 20watts.
So, I suppose that leaves the engine - hard to say what that would add to the fuel , but the more and/or longer the fuel rails then the more heat that
will be added?
I would think the fuel heating would be worse in traffic, not on a long run as airflow would keep fuel rails, fuel lines and the tank cool?
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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blakep82
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| posted on 21/7/14 at 03:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
I'm also thinking another cause of my problem may be the V6 - Mx5's don't have an exhaust on the righthand side of the car where the
fuel lines run........
Plenty of time to think today.....been raining non-stop , and the promised fuel pump didn't turn up.......
So is the heat problem coming from the exhaust? Can you run the fuel line through some sort of insulation, heat reflecting sleeve etc?
Electric radiator fan blowing at the fuel tank? I would have thought the circulating fuel through the tank would be enough to keep it cool enough, but
cant say its something I've ever thought much about.
On my pick up, the exhaust runs through the tunnel, as does the fuel line, the copper pipe is inside a plastic water pipe, to protect from the prop if
it ever fails, and will get a heat shield too
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 21/7/14 at 05:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
I'm also thinking another cause of my problem may be the V6 - Mx5's don't have an exhaust on the righthand side of the car where the
fuel lines run........
Plenty of time to think today.....been raining non-stop , and the promised fuel pump didn't turn up.......
Probably a silly question but could locate a breakers yard in the area?
I'm sure if you could locate a stock mx5 pump you'll be fine on the fuel demand and probably be fine on the fuel heating issue.
I'm 99% sure mx5 pumps are same as ford focus mk1, just different power connector (loads of those in scrap yards all over world)
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 21/7/14 at 05:16 PM |
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When you change pump, the fuel pressure may well go up, as you may have set it with a knackerec pump from day one - worth checking it.
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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clairetoo
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| posted on 21/7/14 at 05:30 PM |
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The replacement pump is now fitted and tested.....had to turn fuel Presque up slightly , and remove the pre filter as the whole thing (sender bracket
and pump) were slightly different to mine .
I'll be plugging the laptop in on the drive home , to be sure of having it running right (the short test drive did show altered AFR's at
cruise .
I'd advise all of you to check the temp of your fuel tank after a long run - first time I noticed this heat buildup was on an old transit that
had been driven over 100 miles and straight into the workshop for fitting - the tank was as warm as a radiator......
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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alfablack
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| posted on 21/7/14 at 09:38 PM |
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the lowest you would get a roatary in tank pump to pull is 12 watts or 1 amp upwards the rotary pumps are designed to operate between -30 to
+150'f and use the fuel to centralize and cool the pump. it would not take much losses to generate extra heat to compensate for the loss in
flow.
and if you are going to set the fuel pressure do it early in the morning before temperatures rise to much and run it on the lower side of suggested
pressure as a map should correct the rest when set correctly
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