scootz
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| posted on 31/7/11 at 09:24 PM |
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I would suggest that if he was back-to-front at the exit of a chicane and he couldn't see what was happening on the racetrack, then he should
have got himself off the racing line VERY carefully!
The donut manouvre could never be construed as careful and could have ended in an almighty coming together. You can argue the point all you like, but
the F1 Steward committee who I assume know a bit about F1 rules and regs seem to have also thought it was inappropriate! 
Also worth noting that the man at the centre of the controversy took it on the chin AND apologised to Di Resta.
It's Evolution Baby!
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craig1410
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| posted on 31/7/11 at 09:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Quinn
Just because he didn't look doesn't mean it was safe to recover his car...
We used to have a cat who would steal stuff off the table by ducking his head underneath first and assumed because he couldn't see us, we
couldn't see him... This approach didn't work for him either, he got a kick in the ar$e too! And well deserved! 
Where did you hear that he didn't look? I thought he said that he didn't see him not that he didn't look. How far up the track could
he see from where he was and what sort of approach speed were the cars doing there. In other words, just how long did he actually have to make a
decision?
I don't get the cat analogy either. Are you suggesting that if Hamilton didn't look then he would think that the other drivers
wouldn't see him either? Surely it was in his interest for them to be able to see him.
I'm not saying that what he did was right but I do think that the punishment was a little harsh.
Well I think it was justified and it seems the stewards agreed, including a fellow British racing driver Alan McNish. You're over thinking the
cat analogy (which wasn't an analogy by the way, it was just a story about my cat...) if Hamilton had looked to his left towards oncoming
traffic he would(should) have seen Paul Di Resta and a few other cars. He didn't even turn his head from what I can remember and you don't
see much out of the side of a crash helmet. It just looked to me like yet another example where he expects other drivers to get out of his way rather
than show some mutual respect.
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 31/7/11 at 09:31 PM |
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Wouldn't argue with that list too much except
Massa, nice bloke but zero charisma
Kobayashi is definitely in the top half, mainly on the basis of being a reincarnated kamikaze pilot, but he does have it
Vettel I don't think has much either, in the middle somewhere, any he has is due to him being champion (and it automatically brings some) not
due to him, comes across as a nice kid but I wouldn't say charismatic
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 31/7/11 at 09:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Quinn
Just because he didn't look doesn't mean it was safe to recover his car...
We used to have a cat who would steal stuff off the table by ducking his head underneath first and assumed because he couldn't see us, we
couldn't see him... This approach didn't work for him either, he got a kick in the ar$e too! And well deserved!
Where did you hear that he didn't look? I thought he said that he didn't see him not that he didn't look. How far up the track could
he see from where he was and what sort of approach speed were the cars doing there. In other words, just how long did he actually have to make a
decision?
I don't get the cat analogy either. Are you suggesting that if Hamilton didn't look then he would think that the other drivers
wouldn't see him either? Surely it was in his interest for them to be able to see him.
I'm not saying that what he did was right but I do think that the punishment was a little harsh.
Well I think it was justified and it seems the stewards agreed, including a fellow British racing driver Alan McNish. You're over thinking the
cat analogy (which wasn't an analogy by the way, it was just a story about my cat...) if Hamilton had looked to his left towards oncoming
traffic he would(should) have seen Paul Di Resta and a few other cars. He didn't even turn his head from what I can remember and you don't
see much out of the side of a crash helmet. It just looked to me like yet another example where he expects other drivers to get out of his way rather
than show some mutual respect.
Given the restriction of the cockpit foam head protection thingies, HANS and given the line PDR had already chosen, effectively 'behind
Hamilton/ to PDRs right, I'm not actually sure how much he would see, been said many time by DC, forward vision is OK, every other direction is
poor
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Richard Quinn
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| posted on 31/7/11 at 09:38 PM |
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The longer he was there, the greater the risk. A very careful 3-point turn isn't really an option in an F1 car.
As I keep saying, I don't think it was right but it wasn't as "stupid" as some people are suggesting. Of course Hamilton was
going to apologise publicly.
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craig1410
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| posted on 31/7/11 at 09:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by norfolkluego
Wouldn't argue with that list too much except
Massa, nice bloke but zero charisma
Kobayashi is definitely in the top half, mainly on the basis of being a reincarnated kamikaze pilot, but he does have it
Vettel I don't think has much either, in the middle somewhere, any he has is due to him being champion (and it automatically brings some) not
due to him, comes across as a nice kid but I wouldn't say charismatic
To be honest I hesitated about Massa and Kobayashi but Massa is well regarded as a really nice guy to talk to and is almost always smiling and willing
to talk to the press and pundits. Kobayashi is an exciting driver but doesn't impress me the way he comes across in interviews. Vettel is very
charismatic I think, especially for a young guy.
A good measure of charisma is when, in the press conferences before or after a race. In most cases the drivers not speaking just look straight forward
but when drivers like Schumacher and Alonso speak, the other drivers turn and look at them.
The thing I like about Paul Di Resta is that he has a steeliness in his eyes that will stand him in good stead in future. Vettel has that too but
hides it well when talking to the press. I understand he is a very demanding guy behind the scenes but in a constructive way.
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Kwik
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| posted on 31/7/11 at 09:46 PM |
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if hamilton drove slowly off the racing line onto the run off area and spin it round there he would have been hit, by spinning it virtually on the
sport the drivers could choose where to go from the start of the chicane. if he drove forward i think it was button would have just hit him from the
side...
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craig1410
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| posted on 31/7/11 at 09:53 PM |
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James Allen has done a little piece on this incident. It seems this isn't Hamilton's first time for something like this.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/07/hamilton-penalty-was-for-offence-eerily-similar-to-gp2-move/
Also, incidentally, Allan McNish was also the driver rep in Monaco when Lewis got a penalty "...because I'm black...". I wonder if
this may be partly behind the lack of sympathy? The poll on the JA website is pretty close as to whether the penalty was justified or not but is
currently 580 vs 543 in favour of the penalty.
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 31/7/11 at 10:06 PM |
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I think HamiltonDonutGate is one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't moments.
Having just seen it again on the news, what I would say is
1 I don't think it affected PDRs line at all, he'd picked that to avoid a broadside Hamilton, he didn't change his line when
Hamilton flicked it round, I don't think it was dangerous AS LONG AS he didn't overcook the donut and we keep being told these guys are
the best in the world, why would he
2 He was in the lead/top 2 (can't remember) when it happened. do I sit here while everyone comes past or get on with it, what decision would
Webber/Alonso et al. have taken, I suspect their inclination would have been to get on with it.
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 31/7/11 at 10:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
James Allen has done a little piece on this incident. It seems this isn't Hamilton's first time for something like this.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/07/hamilton-penalty-was-for-offence-eerily-similar-to-gp2-move/
Also, incidentally, Allan McNish was also the driver rep in Monaco when Lewis got a penalty "...because I'm black...". I wonder if
this may be partly behind the lack of sympathy? The poll on the JA website is pretty close as to whether the penalty was justified or not but is
currently 580 vs 543 in favour of the penalty.
MMM, hadn't realised McNish was on both. To be honest the general consensus on the Hamilton/Maldonado coming together at Monaco is that he (LH)
did nothing wrong, Bundle in his live commentary called against Hamilton but on watching the playbacks changed his mind, the stewards have those
playbacks before they take the decision, QED bad call IMHO
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