scootz
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 02:31 PM |
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Power! Point of Diminishing Returns...
Can a sub-600kg seven-type car have TOO much power for road-use?
If so, at what point do you think that keeping it between the verges became too much of a chore!? 
It's Evolution Baby!
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HowardB
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 02:37 PM |
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Never, it just runs out of road!
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
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wylliezx9r
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 02:40 PM |
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You know you've got enough when your wheel spinning in sixth in the dry
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
George Best
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omega0684
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 02:42 PM |
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200bhp is the magic number for me! big power cars are impressive, but, honestly, can you use it on the road? "personally", in a straight
line yes (motorway) but in the corners (country lanes) i don't think you can
I love Pinto's, even if i did get mine from P&O!
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 02:42 PM |
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at any cost? no.
With costs though, when the percentage of time you spend at full throttle is so low that the extra expense and wear rate on the engine ceases to make
financial sense.
My Build Thread
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mark chandler
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 02:53 PM |
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My poor little BEC carrying your old Aerocharger is 201BHP, absolutely hopeless on the road as much to fast in the real world.... track only now.
It's gets frustrating tickling the throttle when you want to boot it 
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scootz
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 02:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
My poor little BEC carrying your old Aerocharger is 201BHP, absolutely hopeless on the road as much to fast in the real world.... track only now.
It's gets frustrating tickling the throttle when you want to boot it
LOL.. is there anyone on this forum who is NOT running a part that used to belong to me!!!!???
I'm off to your archive to see if there are any pics of it!
It's Evolution Baby!
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mds167
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 05:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
LOL.. is there anyone on this forum who is NOT running a part that used to belong to me!!!!???
I don't have anything of yours Scootz but aren't building yet so I suppose there's time.
I like the 350Z engine..
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 05:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
My poor little BEC carrying your old Aerocharger is 201BHP, absolutely hopeless on the road as much to fast in the real world.... track only now.
It's gets frustrating tickling the throttle when you want to boot it
LOL.. is there anyone on this forum who is NOT running a part that used to belong to me!!!!???
I'm off to your archive to see if there are any pics of it!
Yep me.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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scootz
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 05:27 PM |
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Are you in the market for anything!?
It's Evolution Baby!
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franky
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 05:52 PM |
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As long as it can put it down no
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phelpsa
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 06:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Are you in the market for anything!?
Do you go requests for buying up very nice parts and selling them on for a fraction of their value? If so, i've got a list...
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iank
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 06:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by phelpsa
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Are you in the market for anything!?
Do you go requests for buying up very nice parts and selling them on for a fraction of their value? If so, i've got a list...
Don't we all, don't we all
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 06:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Can a sub-600kg seven-type car have TOO much power for road-use?
If so, at what point do you think that keeping it between the verges became too much of a chore!?
May I refer the Honourable gentleman to a certain Mr Caroll Shelby - 'too much power is just enough'
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 06:23 PM |
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I get the feeling there's a very fine line between "a bit of a handful" and "that's f**king dangerous!"
I also get the feeling that a fraction of an inch further is "under a truck"
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flak monkey
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 06:31 PM |
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300bhp was enough for me. Could use all the power in 2nd gear from 2000rpm, took some work to get it to that stage though....
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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ashg
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 06:32 PM |
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i reckon about 250ish in a 7. mine is floating around that area and its just on the boarder of being too quick for the road, fine on track. its not
the power that is the issue its the fact that it is as quick as a zx9r up to 100 and people in normal cars have no idea of how quick it accelerates as
they bumble along. At that level of acceleration you have to be very switched on exactly like when your on a bike, the only problem is that a 7 is
much bigger than a bike and doesn't fit through tight gaps half as well
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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Wadders
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 06:45 PM |
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Showing my naivety here, but i bought a slicks and wings hill climb car once....1400cc 248hp Powertec Busa circa 310kg....do the maths, its scary!
Some on here may remember my highly amusing attempts at piloting it around a cold greasy Curborough.......spent more time on the grass than the tarmac
Quickly sold it on, as i figured it would kill me before i learnt to control it..... could definately have got round a lot quicker and safer in the
puny STM, and certainly had more fun Things happen too fast when power output exceeds how fast you can think
Al.
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onenastyviper
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 07:19 PM |
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Isn't how the power comes in more important than the amount of power?
If it is progressive and controllable then surely it is an irrelevance, you would simply apply as much power as the grip allowed?
Alternatively, use the throttle like a light-switch and buy shares in pirelli (other tyre brands are available)?
quote:
Originally posted by Wadders
Showing my naivety here, but i bought a slicks and wings hill climb car once....1400cc 248hp Powertec Busa circa 310kg....do the maths, its scary!
Some on here may remember my highly amusing attempts at piloting it around a cold greasy Curborough.......spent more time on the grass than the tarmac
Quickly sold it on, as i figured it would kill me before i learnt to control it..... could definately have got round a lot quicker and safer in the
puny STM, and certainly had more fun Things happen too fast when power output exceeds how fast you can think
Al.
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russbost
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 07:46 PM |
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I knew there would be a lot of naysayers, as in "No, you can never have too much power" - but personally I would say most definitely yes,
particularly if you want the car to be pleasant to drive rather than scare you to death & particularly if you're thinking of using it in
weather other than warm & dry & particularly where road use is concerned.
Personally I would say anything over 350bhp/tonne is pretty much a waste of time for road use in the above circumstances, if you're only
intending use in the warm & dry (hang on, aren't you up in Jockland??? - you guys never get warm & dry for more than about a week a year
do you??? ) then perhaps 400bhp/tonne or so providing it doesn't all arrive in one big lump!
I took Adam from CKC out in the back of my old twin engined car 274bhp (probs less, the low mileage engine had done 34000! ) in around 600kg. He
described it (on the back page of CKC incidentally) as the only car he had ever been out in that had scared him like a big bike does - I think it was
a compliment! But I've never quite been sure - perhaps it was just my driving!
I know of at least one 7 owner (ZX12R engined Formula 27) who won't take the car out if it's below about 5 deg C or if it's damp,
because he says it is just too scary, I'd guess that's about 180bhp (at flywheel) in around 550kgs
How the power is delivered is also important, but probs most important of all is what you actually want out of the car - what you actually want it to
do.
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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clairetoo
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 08:00 PM |
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I've got just over 200 in a 680kg car , and virtually never use more than half of it - even on new T1R's it will swap ends on roundabouts
if I give it too much throttle - that has happened as low as 2000rpm in third.......
But.....in a straight line , it is nothing short of awesome - in the three years I've had this engine in , I've only had it close to flat
out once...........over 150 and still accelerating
I intend to put a smaller engine in (something I have been saying for two years....)
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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Wadders
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 08:09 PM |
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Probably true in a normal car, but progressive and controllable don't seem to apply when you're relying on downforce for grip
you could lift the front end of the car off the floor with ease in the garage......and come to think of it the throttle was like a light switch...
light the blue touch paper and go guess i would have got used to it, but it would have been a very expensive learning curve 
Originally posted by onenastyviper
Isn't how the power comes in more important than the amount of power?
If it is progressive and controllable then surely it is an irrelevance, you would simply apply as much power as the grip allowed?
Alternatively, use the throttle like a light-switch and buy shares in pirelli (other tyre brands are available)?
quote:
Originally posted by Wadders
Showing my naivety here, but i bought a slicks and wings hill climb car once....1400cc 248hp Powertec Busa circa 310kg....do the maths, its scary!
Some on here may remember my highly amusing attempts at piloting it around a cold greasy Curborough.......spent more time on the grass than the tarmac
Quickly sold it on, as i figured it would kill me before i learnt to control it..... could definately have got round a lot quicker and safer in the
puny STM, and certainly had more fun Things happen too fast when power output exceeds how fast you can think
Al.
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Steve Hignett
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 08:13 PM |
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The car I'm currently building will weigh in at around 1400 bhp-per-tonne, and I personally think that's too much. But it's each to
their own isn't it! (as long as I'm not paying for it!!!)
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AdamCKC
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 08:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by russbost
I took Adam from CKC out in the back of my old twin engined car 274bhp (probs less, the low mileage engine had done 34000! ) in around 600kg. He
described it (on the back page of CKC incidentally) as the only car he had ever been out in that had scared him like a big bike does - I think it was
a compliment! But I've never quite been sure - perhaps it was just my driving!
I'd only just got over that experience, and now you've brought it all back to me!
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franky
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| posted on 5/10/11 at 08:14 PM |
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Just to add to what I said and to echo some others, It does depend on the way the engine makes its power. A nice linear N/A engine that just makes
more power the further you rev it means you could get away with having HUGE power and still a very useable car.
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