spuker1
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| posted on 13/8/13 at 11:15 AM |
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It's not that. I haven't changed jets, just raised needles and air/fuel ratio is good now, just like it was before with the choke on. For
some reason it felt more powerfull before. Although now it runs quite nice actually, biggest improvement is that it pulls strong right from the bottom
with smooth power curve, before it was very slow at low revs and it would pick up more oomph at higher revs... I might actually leave it as it is.
Also had some fuelling problems yesterday on my way back from friend. The fuel wouldn't go through. I barely made it couple hundred yards and
then it stalled and didn't want to start again. No idea why. Pulled off air filters, pulled off fuel line... there was fuel in the line so
I've put it back on. I thought that's my fuel pump gone but I've managed to start it. It ran very rough at first with the choke all
the way up (usually it floods the engine this way) and let it run for a minute or two. Pump was running ok and everything seemed fine... After then it
worked like nothing happened - it ran spot on again... No idea what that was...
[Edited on 13/8/13 by spuker1]
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redturner
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| posted on 30/8/13 at 01:35 PM |
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It seems to me that you are having a really bad time with these carbs and shouldn't be. I reckon you should either totally strip those carbs and
rebuild them or get a set that are known to be good. R1 carbs are brilliant, mine cost me £85, a manifold from danst and I used 4 small tubes to
balance the vacuum for the MAP sensor, though Danst can supply a proper balance tube.This thing goes like stink. I never have to use the chokes, full
throttle and press the button, though I do use an external power pack. The use of any restrictive device at all is wrong and indicates that you are
short of fuel, nothing else and it is extremely bad practice to do this to increase the afr. The use of wire mesh filters was o'k back in the
day, but you must never have them/it closer than 4"/100mm. With the R1 carbs you must also use the original rubber trumpets for the best
results. You can re use the 200 jets you have by soldering up and re drilling......................
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spuker1
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| posted on 3/9/13 at 09:08 AM |
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Cheers,
I've managed to lift the needles a bit and it's perfectly driveable now but still on the rich side. I think If I go down from 150 to 130
jets on current needle setting it will be spot on. All the restrictor stuff was just a temp job so I could get the car to the local meet. It's
in the past now and I'm not getting back there. Unluckily last time I took my baby out, it was running sweet and I had a blast in it, the fuel
pump went (I've been told haven't I?  ). I'm going away for holidays soon so as soon as I get back I'm going for a facet fuel
pump and smaller jets an it will be all done and wrapped up.
Also, the underpowered feeling with raised needles was because when I've raised them I had to take little springs that hold needles in place
out. They have a slight play in the diaphragm slide so when they hit the petrol in the bowl they didn't do it as hard as with the spring locking
them in snugly. Springs are modified and back in now and it runs sweet without any choke or anything like that.
The carbs themselves never gave me too much trouble is just getting the right tune is a sort of hit and miss/try and test thing. I never did it before
and I'm learning while I'm doing it.
Thanks 
[Edited on 3/9/13 by spuker1]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 3/9/13 at 10:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by spuker1I'm going for a facet fuel pump
don't do it - get a bike pump instead !
like this one:
Kawasaki ZX9R (2001) E1/E2 Fuel Pump With Bracket
they are better suited to the carb's, you won't need any pressure regulator and they are cheaper too
[Edited on 3/9/2013 by mcerd1]
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spuker1
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| posted on 4/9/13 at 07:40 AM |
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Thanks! I've got a FPR on already though so it's not an issue really.
Also I think bike pumps are quite simillar to what I'm looking at. Check it out:
Facet 12v Low Pressure Posi-Flow Electronic/Electrical Fuel Pump Kit
"The Posi-Flow Fuel pump is very common on tuned and motor sport cars upto 180BHP. The typical application would be an engine fitted with a
large twin choke or twin carb's on a smaller engine. Flow rate is 32 USgallons per hour."
[Edited on 4/9/13 by spuker1]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 4/9/13 at 08:13 AM |
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I'm sure that pump would work, but the bike pump is still the best for bike carb's as it cuts out automatically when it reaches the
required pressure
the facet type ones are designed for webbers etc which have different needs....
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redturner
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| posted on 4/9/13 at 12:03 PM |
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I am using a small solid state pump with my R1 carbs and have no trouble at all yet. The same pump was also used to fuel the 32/36 carb on my 1600 x
flow.....
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whitestu
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| posted on 4/9/13 at 12:12 PM |
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Why buy something that may work when you can get the correct item for a similar price? Bike pumps regularly go for £20-30 on ebay.
Stu
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spuker1
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| posted on 4/9/13 at 03:06 PM |
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I think whichever pump I'll go for it's going to be fine anyway.
Thanks
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jacko
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| posted on 4/9/13 at 07:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by spuker1
I think whichever pump I'll go for it's going to be fine anyway.
Thanks
That.s the word Think with a bike pump you will know its the right one
Good luck and i hope all goes right for you
Jacko
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spuker1
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| posted on 23/9/13 at 09:11 AM |
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Ok I think I came to the point where I can finally say that my car is actually running bike carbs, so to sum it up:
My bike carbs conversion project had it's ups and downs with the most recent one where the car stopped fueling itself and cut off miles away
from home and I had to be towed back. I thought that the 30 year old membrane fuel pump went but when I took it out for inspection it squirted petrol
all over the place so that was definitely working well haha. Turned out to be my fuel pressure regulator, which I bought brand new just for the
conversion (off eBay of course). It sort of jammed itself off and didn't let any fuel through. Bypassed that and it works like a charm now.
I've also struggled with getting right fuel/air mixture. Mainly because with the carbs I've used there's no needle height adjustment
so I had to fabricate like tiny tiny washers that would go between the needle head and the bottom of the inside of the slide (if that makes any
sense). Obviously that took absolute ages to get right. At first I had them farily hight and to do that I had to take the locking springs out, which
ment the needle would have about 1mm play. That gave me fairly lean mixture still, so I've managed to squeeze the springs back in and that went
rich through the roof. So I've made like small washers and left springs in and now it's just about right, still slightly on the rich side.
So I probably have to downsize the jets from 150 to like 135 or/and tweak air screw as that affects entire range not just idle/slight throttle in my
carbs. Also considering going bare trumpets for extra oomph. Not sure what negative effects could that have though, I don't want to hurt my
engine...
But anyway, Thank you all for the massive support and all good advice! I think I sort of know what I'm doing now and the conversion is pretty
much done, now it's just fine tuning and making it look nice
All the best!
Tom
[Edited on 23/9/13 by spuker1]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 23/9/13 at 09:49 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by spuker1Turned out to be my fuel pressure regulator, which I bought brand new just for the conversion (off eBay of
course). It sort of jammed itself off and didn't let any fuel through.
thats one of the reasons why we suggested the bike pumps - they don't need any regulators so they actually have less parts to go wrong 
quote:
Originally posted by spuker1Also considering going bare trumpets for extra oomph. Not sure what negative effects could that have though,
I don't want to hurt my engine...
don't do it !! running without filters will shorten the life of your engine 
your individual filters aren't great for performance, but they are better than nothing
if you want better performance than your current setup then use either a foam sausage filter or an airbox ducted to a good cone filter (think
something like the pipercross airbox's, but you don't have to buy anything that expensive - its only a box!)
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ianm67
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| posted on 23/9/13 at 10:17 AM |
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Can I ask a question? Have the bike carbs actually made any difference to the performance or driveability of the car over standard? Sounds like a huge
amount of grief for little return at the moment to me...? I admire your efforts but I've read some proper horror stories about the amount of
time and money people have invested in getting them to run properly on cars. Surely a set of Webers or Dellortos would have been easier?
Always biting off more than I can chew.....
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spuker1
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| posted on 23/9/13 at 12:53 PM |
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quote:
don't do it !! running without filters will shorten the life of your engine
your individual filters aren't great for performance, but they are better than nothing
if you want better performance than your current setup then use either a foam sausage filter or an airbox ducted to a good cone filter (think
something like the pipercross airbox's, but you don't have to buy anything that expensive - its only a box!)
Thanks I'll bear that in mind.
What about trumpets with those dirt bike style foam socks on?
or Weber style mesh like this?
Actually, if I'd manage to get a pressure proof airbox, in theory, I could go turbo! 
quote:
Can I ask a question? Have the bike carbs actually made any difference to the performance or driveability of the car over standard? Sounds like
a huge amount of grief for little return at the moment to me...? I admire your efforts but I've read some proper horror stories about the amount
of time and money people have invested in getting them to run properly on cars. Surely a set of Webers or Dellortos would have been easier?
I was going to go for Webers/Dellortos but those carburettors cost a lot plus you have to fabricate a manifold with the right flanges for them.
I think in my case the effort wouldn't be so much if I knew what I was doing before hand. In this case it was pretty much trial and error sort
of thing.
Performance wise I think there's noticeable improvement over stock already with much more to be gained. Main difference is the torque I think,
you can feel it pulling much harder and also on stock carburettor there was not much power until you went up to 4000-4500rpm. Now it goes hard right
from the bottom. Also compared videos of the car running on local airstrip with stock carb and airbox and same exhaust to videos of how it goes now
and it's noticeably quicker now. Goes up in revs quicker. Although! I'm running quite rich at the moment. For normal driving conditions my
air/fuel ratio is ok but when I put my foot down the AFR goes down to ±10:1 (doesn't bog though) so the engine doesn't gain full advantage
of those carbs. Had them on a lean side before for a test run (It was lean on normal driving load and ok-ish for WOT) and it went like a stabbed rat.
Well it wasn't quick anyway because it's just 1.3L 12v engine but the difference was remarkable. I would say 25bhp over stock gain easy.
Also the best proof of having gains over stock carb is my clutch that started to slip like crazy. 4th gear, 2000rpm cruise, put your foot down and it
will rev right up without accelerating at all
Cost wise it was nothing as expensive as I thought and definitely cheaper then Weber setup I think.
£150 - AEM UEGO Wideband gauge/sensor (that shouldn't really count though as I bought it before to monitor the AFR anyway, on the other
hand I wouldn't be able to set those carbs without it...)
£30 - Fuel pressure regulator (that wasn't needed with my pump and fallen apart after 2,5months of usage)
£35 - Keihin VF series carbs off Honda CBX 550 F2 (looked rough on the outside but went with them for the money, turned out to be mint on the
inside, also bought them off a guy who build/broken motorbikes for parts and he told me what does what on them. other thing with them was that Keihin
made a stock carb on my Honda so the choke and throttle cables fitted right in with some extra brackets as stock is side fed and bike carbs are top
fed.)
£30 - spare intake manifold and silicon joiners (obviously you don't need a spare manifold but I didn't want to chop the original
one up, but you would probably spend as much just on silicon hose pipes off eBAy. bought the lot off fellow 3rd generation civic owner, he was going
for bike carbs swap himself but ended up swapping entire engine out for something more beefy and injected so didn't need them. also gave me
honda twincam cylinder head for the price which I'm refurbing now.)
£30 - Different size of jets (for fine tuning, could've just buy one another set and then couple sizes of micro drill bits which are like
£0,80 each and then just drill the jets out or solder them back down if necessary. i suppose that's trial and error thing isn't it?)
£17 - Air filters (shitty ones and too big, but made them fit nicely)
£20 - miscellaneous stuff (jubilee clips, cable ties, heat shrink stuff, hacksaw etc.)
Total cost: £312
That could be much less if I knew what I was doing to begin with, also it was spent over time too not in one go so it didn't feel like 300 quid
going into it.
Also if you know how to tune AFR by spark plug colour it would cost £150 less
However I have got stock self-regulating mechanical fuel pump and distributor running off the camshaft so I didn't have to do anything to
fueling/ignition system. If you would have to go with different fuel pump or especially with MegaJolt the cost and grief would be much more.
In my opinion and my case - Totally worth it. Even just for the sound.
[Edited on 23/9/13 by spuker1]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 23/9/13 at 07:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by spuker1
What about trumpets with those dirt bike style foam socks on?
or Weber style mesh like this?
^^ the foam socks are no better than what you've got now, and the mesh is even worse
wire mesh on the trumpets is only to stop large debris - its 1950's tech for race engine that get re-built all the time
the individual filters are 60's - 70's tech - the foam filters and airboxes are the modern solution
the best option is an airbox - that's why the sports/super bikes use them
if you can't do an airbox then the next best thing is one of these:
they don't mess up the airflow on the way into the trumpets like the individual filters do - the carb trumpets like drawing air from a large
volume of filtered air...
[Edited on 23/9/2013 by mcerd1]
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spuker1
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| posted on 23/9/13 at 11:00 PM |
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Awesome! I'll go with that then, when I save up! I've already ordered a set of trumpets that look like they going to fit my carbs right
in!
Excited!
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spuker1
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| posted on 30/9/13 at 09:06 AM |
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Hi!
Another little update! I've put a set of bare trumpets on my carbs and didn't that make a difference!!! It leaned it out a bit so the AFR
is absolutely PERFECT now and by perfect I mean that the gauge reads AFRs in exactly same way as it did on the stock carb. The improvement in
performance is even more now. The car flies. It's still not fast at all by being a 1.3 but when I took my friend around to tell me how it is he
said 'not bad for a 27 years old 1.6 single cam' obviously at that point I went 'ohhh yea!!!!!'
Here's the shot from yesterday's local meet:
The car will be going off the road for the winter so I'll have enough time to get an airbox or the sausage filter on.
Thanks again guys!
Regards,
Tom
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RichardK
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| posted on 30/9/13 at 10:39 AM |
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Looks tidy, glad you got it sorted.
Take care
Rich
Gallery updated 11/01/2011
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spuker1
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| posted on 7/10/13 at 10:42 AM |
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Check out the recent video of my car!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dx3RqXauEg
[Edited on 7/10/13 by spuker1]
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sharpshooter
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| posted on 3/11/13 at 08:56 PM |
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Great movie man!
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