scootz
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 11:00 AM |
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Physically Small Engine / Gearbox Package
Mornin all.
I recently bought a Smart Roadster Brabus Coupe. Got it rempapped to 125bhp and it's actually quite a hoot. You just cane it everywhere you
go, feel like you're going eleventy-million miles per hour, but in reality you're barely troubling the speed limit!
I heard a lot of moaning about the gearboxes, but that has to be about the standard auto boxes surely as the flappy-paddle model that mine has changes
faster than I could with a manual.
The only thing I don't like about it is the ABS based traction control system - it is far too intrusive!
Anyway, it got me thinking about returning to an old idea...
How about a stripped-out, basically kitted, mega-lightweight jobbie!? It'll give me something to faff about with until the Arion is built, or
until I get bored and take the pile of junk I've bodged to the scrappy! 
So I picked up a rolling Smart Brabus Roadster chassis (non-coupe) with V5 for pennies from a breakers. I went with the non-Coupe as it's
lighter and I wanted to cut the screen down (the coupe wouldn't look right with this done).
Surprisingly, there's not a lot of swap info out there. I've seen that a guy put a Citroen VTR engine / auto box in one. And there are a
couple of GSXR cars (especially in the ForTwo range).
So far I've stripped it's entire interior out, removed the heavy doors, removed the PAS components, removed the rear window, and chopped
the screen-glass down just to see what it might look like (pic below).
Will get round to making a lexan screen, a simple ali-sheet dash, and put in some GRP seats. I'm confident I can knock 100kg + from the
original 790kg weight (even with a four-pot engine swap).
The only fabrication work will involve a couple of mounts across the front chassis legs to take the relocated fuel tank, plates to tidy up the
windscreen pillar legs, welded in harness brackets, a clutch pedal, couple of side impact bars across where the doors were (I'll attach the
plastic door-skin panels direct to these bars. Oh, and new bracketry on the rear sub-frame to take a different engine / gearbox!
Which brings me to the bit where I need inspiration! Engine / gearbox choice!
My requirements:
Transverse layout.
No bike engines (will be too heavy at 650+kg).
Must be a physically small and light unit as there's not a lot of space back there (see pic of a Rover K-series block in the subframe).
Doesn't have to have stupid power.
Must be 'simple'. No fancy electronics / induction.
Must be plentiful (cheap!).
Naturally aspirated.
Common sense says a 'ready' mid-mounted engine like a MG(T)F, MR2, etc. Means I can get off-the-shelf gear-linkages, exhausts, etc. from
scrappy's.
As mentioned I have a 1.8 K block with 160 pistons sat lying around. It would take me forever to get this engine built-up though, so I'd
probably be best just transplanting direct from an damaged MG(T)F donor.
So far, the Rover K is the leading contender... it's light, it''s cheap, and it will make decent power. I haven't got any
gearbox or engine manifolds lying about just now, so I can't be certain if it will all fit, but it looks hopeful. Can anyone help with
dimensions for the PG1 box?
Am I missing any other engines out? Does anyone know of a notoriously small transverse engine / gearbox package that gives a good power-to weight
ratio? The other leading contender was the Ford Sigma (Puma) engine and IB5 box. Light and buzzy, but I'm not sure it offers enough (any!?)
more than the Rover K and PG1 to justify the extra hassle of making my own gear-linkage.
All suggestions welcome!
[Edited on 22/6/15 by scootz]
It's Evolution Baby!
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loggyboy
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 11:10 AM |
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Ecoboost?
GM small block turbo (corsa vxr)
Mistral Motorsport
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scootz
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 11:15 AM |
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Cheers. I did think about the 1.0 Ecoboost, but reckon it could be a PITA due to all the modern emissions kit and fancy electrickery. It's not
a particularly cheap unit yet either.
It's Evolution Baby!
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Ugg10
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 11:35 AM |
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Nice project.
Banks put the Smart fortwo engine in the back of one of their lotus Europa cars, looked a tidy install and seemed to go well (and was very orange!)
http://www.banks-europa.co.uk/smart_europa.htm
other typical transplants would be:
Early Civic/Integra VTI B18 (180hp ish) engine or the later 2.0l Civic Type r K20 engine
As already said the 1.7 Puma Sigma - bike TBs, exhaust and an ecu and you are at 150HP+
On oddball choice may be the Toyota Starlet/Glanza turbo engine - these can be tuned from the std 135hp to 200hp (from a 1.3l 4E-FTE)
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 11:37 AM |
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I'll get your PG1 measurement tonight mate, sorry forgot 
Build Blog
Build Photo Album
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scootz
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 11:44 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by liam.mccaffrey
I'll get your PG1 measurement tonight mate, sorry forgot
No probs Liam. And genuinely no rush...
It's Evolution Baby!
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femster87
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 11:44 AM |
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What are you up to again? I had the blue wave till the turbo died. Like you said paddle shift makes it super fun and you cannot lose your license. It
does hesitate at junctions though. Engine wise, I will go for a mental rotax engine with cvt. Cant beat it. You make me want to buy another one
[Edited on 22/6/15 by femster87]
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scootz
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 11:45 AM |
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Cheers Ugg.
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 11:47 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by femster87
What are you up to again? I had the blue wave till the turbo died. Like you said paddle shift makes it super fun and you cannot lose your license. It
does hesitate at junctions though. Engine wise, I will go for a mental rotax engine with cvt. Cant beat it. You make me want to buy another one
They're great fun!
My lil' Brabus...
It's Evolution Baby!
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Ugg10
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 11:58 AM |
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Another look at the first picture reminds me of the Manta Ray Buggy ! Possible inspiration for the styling ??????
Also dug this up - worth a revisit - bit more radical that yours scootz but interesting nonetheless.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=193319
[Edited on 22/6/15 by Ugg10]
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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JAG
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 12:56 PM |
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How about the 190bhp Toyota Celica engine/gearbox?
Front/transverse installation and rev's like a bike engine 
Justin
Who is this super hero? Sarge? ...No.
Rosemary, the telephone operator? ...No.
Penry, the mild-mannered janitor? ...Could be!
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scootz
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 01:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ugg10
Another look at the first picture reminds me of the Manta Ray Buggy ! Possible inspiration for the styling ??????
Also dug this up - worth a revisit - bit more radical that yours scootz but interesting nonetheless.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=193319
I really liked that... way beyond my skill-set though.
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 01:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JAG
How about the 190bhp Toyota Celica engine/gearbox?
Front/transverse installation and rev's like a bike engine
T'was a thought... I could get a middy set-up from a Lotus... wee bit expensive though.
It's Evolution Baby!
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nero1701
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 01:17 PM |
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clicky
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beaver34
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 01:55 PM |
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i nearly purchased a brabus ended up with a vx220
the k series should be good ala elise and can run up to 160bhp fairly cheapish
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AntonUK
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 03:47 PM |
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go proper old school and try an a-series. throw a old T2 turbo on with a mirage manifold. loads of umph, plenty of resource info online, and no
electronics in sight!
I do believe there are mid mount conversion kits available too
[Edited on 22/6/15 by AntonUK]
Build Photos Here
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 04:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Mornin all.
I recently bought a Smart Roadster Brabus Coupe. Got it rempapped to 125bhp and it's actually quite a hoot. You just cane it everywhere you
go, feel like you're going eleventy-million miles per hour, but in reality you're barely troubling the speed limit!
I heard a lot of moaning about the gearboxes, but that has to be about the standard auto boxes surely as the flappy-paddle model that mine has changes
faster than I could with a manual.
I bought my wife a Roadster Coupe at the beginning of the year as a birthday present, though I had to completely rebuild the engine (factored into
purchase price). It's more fun than most cars I've driven, and it's no slouch at lower speeds. However you must change gear pretty
slowly if you think the Roadster does it faster than you could! It's not as terrible as many people make out and it certainly has it's
charms, but it's slow enough that you have to learn to anticipate the box to get the best from it. Fully auto mode is virtually useless as
well.
I'm really interested in your project as a revvy naturally aspirated engine with a manual box and clutch would turn it into a cracking little
sportscar. Brabus somehow managed to shoehorn a V6 (made from two 3 port Smart engines) into an extremely limited edition version, but a four pot is
still going to be a tight fit IMO.
I did notice that the new ForFour/Renault Twingo has a 3 pot with a proper clutch/gearbox and wondered if that would fit in, but obviously they are
new and expensive.
Hmm...has the Mazda rotary ever been mated up to a FWD transxle?
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scootz
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 04:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
I bought my wife a Roadster Coupe at the beginning of the year as a birthday present, though I had to completely rebuild the engine (factored into
purchase price). It's more fun than most cars I've driven, and it's no slouch at lower speeds. However you must change gear pretty
slowly if you think the Roadster does it faster than you could! It's not as terrible as many people make out and it certainly has it's
charms, but it's slow enough that you have to learn to anticipate the box to get the best from it. Fully auto mode is virtually useless as
well.
I'm really interested in your project as a revvy naturally aspirated engine with a manual box and clutch would turn it into a cracking little
sportscar. Brabus somehow managed to shoehorn a V6 (made from two 3 port Smart engines) into an extremely limited edition version, but a four pot is
still going to be a tight fit IMO.
I did notice that the new ForFour/Renault Twingo has a 3 pot with a proper clutch/gearbox and wondered if that would fit in, but obviously they are
new and expensive.
Hmm...has the Mazda rotary ever been mated up to a FWD transxle?
I don't know if the re-map has done something to speed up the gear change in mine or if I've just struck it lucky, but mine honestly
changes pretty much instantly going up, and there's only a very slight delay in coming down.
It's Evolution Baby!
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Badger_McLetcher
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 05:53 PM |
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Bit of a randomer, how about the CGA3DE out of a Mk2 Micra? Apparently they're quite revvy and respond well to some light tuning (up to about
130hp NA). Or sticking with the Nissan theme, SR20DE (or DET) - not sure how small they are though.
If disfunction is a function, then I must be some kind of genius.
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tegwin
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 06:03 PM |
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Toyota Glanza Turbo 1.3 engine? They can be tuned pretty crazily I understand
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Would the last person who leaves the country please switch off the lights and close the door!
www.verticalhorizonsmedia.tv
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 06:16 PM |
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You could consider the Focus 1.6 (Sigma or Zetec?), they have cable shift mechanism from I've seen from MEV Rocket builds.
Honda B16 would be pretty scary quick
https://www.flickr.com/photos/59800367@N07/sets/72157654433698458/
Suzuki G13B
http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1473
Mazda v6
http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15932
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scootz
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 06:28 PM |
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Cheers... forgot about the MEV middies!
It's Evolution Baby!
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Ugg10
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 07:01 PM |
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Worth a search for pictures of the sylva j15 (jenko on here), sigma/zetec se version of the r1ot or the vectis (mgf subframe version) for
installations/frames etc.
Also gtm libra used a K series in the rear end and the marlin 5exi has been fitted with a number of transverse engines including the vag 1.8t (another
one to add to the list)
If you want an engineering project there is always the A series mini engine with a k1000 BMW bike 16v head. Loads of articles on this out there.
[Edited on 22/6/15 by Ugg10]
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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MikeR
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 07:05 PM |
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4age? Then upgrade to the super charged version?
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 22/6/15 at 08:32 PM |
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Supercharge a little Aygo 3 pot?
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