datz510
|
| posted on 25/1/06 at 12:29 AM |
|
|
Howdy! My 442 under construction
Just joined the site and felt that this place is a great resource for these projects.
I have some decent experence in fabrication work and have mainly built four wheel drive truck suspensions to use to explore the desert here in
Arizona. After looking into these little cars, I felt that a locost would be a great way to learn a little more and do some experimenting with street
suspensions.
So, this last weekend, I started building my own locost using the McSorley 442 plans... (I dont even own any locost books yet...) I've also
decided to go the route of IRS, since smaller live rear axles are getting harder to find here. (everything is front wheel drive these days!!)
Here is where I'm at on the chassis after running out of steel & about 2 hours of cutting & 3 hours of tack welding the pieces
together:
With its new wheels, which were donated to the locost cause by my brother:
I am planning on using a Nissan 240sx as my donor car, which will give me large front and rear disc brakes, a KA24 4 cyl and 5 speed, as well as most
of the parts I need to build a decent IRS setup in the rear of my locost.
Went and picked up another 80 feet of 1x1 and 20 feet of 1"x13 gauge tube for the wishbones..
My first question for you folks, will 13 gauge tubing be adequate for the wishbones, or should I go with something heavier? 1"x13 gauge is
approx 25mm diameter x 2.23mm wall thickness. I dont have the book yet, so have no guidance on this aspect other than the photos I've seen on
here.
BTW, The yellow car in the background is my resto-modified 3 liter V6 powered '72 Datsun 510 (1600 overseas). It is a lot of fun to drive. I
have some pics of it too if anyone wants to see.
[Edited on 25/1/06 by datz510]
Hang on, we're goin for a ride!
1972 Datsun 510 (1600) w/ 200hp 3.0L V6
1995 Nissan Pathfinder rock crawler
|
|
|
|
|
stevebubs
|
| posted on 25/1/06 at 12:47 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by datz510
BTW, The yellow car in the background is my resto-modified 3 liter V6 powered '72 Datsun 510 (1600 overseas). It is a lot of fun to drive. I
have some pics of it too if anyone wants to see.
Yes please!!! (Archive / weblinks?)
Oh... and good luck with the 442...
Stephen
|
|
|
datz510
|
| posted on 25/1/06 at 12:57 AM |
|
|
Here are a few pics I have online..
http://members.cox.net/datz510/my510.jpg
http://members.cox.net/datz510/my510-2.jpg
And a few of the engine bay.. the V6 engine fits.. just barely.. did all the fabrication work myself to shoehorn it in. It looks almost factory.
http://members.cox.net/datz510/manifold11.JPG
http://members.cox.net/datz510/manifold13.JPG
http://members.cox.net/datz510/manifold10.JPG
Its a real hoot to drive.. The first couple gears are prone to leave a lot of rubber on the ground! The torque curve of the V6 is almost flat from
2000rpm up to 6000rpm, so it pulls like a freight train in any gear at almost any rev..
Hang on, we're goin for a ride!
1972 Datsun 510 (1600) w/ 200hp 3.0L V6
1995 Nissan Pathfinder rock crawler
|
|
|
physician
|
| posted on 25/1/06 at 01:30 AM |
|
|
interesting engine... do you have the weight of the vg30 engine with the gear box?
|
|
|
datz510
|
| posted on 25/1/06 at 03:06 AM |
|
|
The VG30 V6 weighs ~357lb by itself. They are a cast iron block w/ aluminum heads. Add about another 90lb for the tranny. I am running a Borg
Warner T5 transmission with the VG30.. The T5 was a factory tranny in the 1989 Nissan 300zx turbo sports cars here in the US.
The engine can be sourced over there in Europe out of the Nissan Terrano or Terrano II or stateside out of the older 300zx, Maxima, Pathfinder, and a
number of other vehicles (even Ford Windstars and Mercury Villagers had them). They are pretty much indestructable engines and will take a lot of
abuse and still run like a sewing machine.
[Edited on 25/1/06 by datz510]
Hang on, we're goin for a ride!
1972 Datsun 510 (1600) w/ 200hp 3.0L V6
1995 Nissan Pathfinder rock crawler
|
|
|
physician
|
| posted on 25/1/06 at 03:47 AM |
|
|
thanks for the info! nice 510 and good luck and perseverance with the locost
|
|
|
RazMan
|
| posted on 25/1/06 at 05:51 AM |
|
|
Welcome to the madhouse Datz 
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
|
|
|
ayoungman
|
| posted on 25/1/06 at 08:58 AM |
|
|
Ahoy there shipmate ! welcome aboard !
I trust that you won't be fitting any weather gear on your car !:
"just like that !"
|
|
|
Avoneer
|
| posted on 25/1/06 at 09:58 AM |
|
|
Welcome to the madhouse too!
I'd up the wishbone thickness to around 3mm (11 SWG) if possible - you can't go wrong then.
Good luck and you have found the best place for advice and help.
Pat...
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
|
|
|
Avoneer
|
| posted on 25/1/06 at 10:00 AM |
|
|
Also, get the egine and gearbox roughly in place next before welding any of the transmisson tunnel bars or the two that are loose on the board as
these may need moving to suit the gearbox - you don't have to stick with book dimensions for these.
Pat...
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
|
|
|
omega 24 v6
|
| posted on 25/1/06 at 12:39 PM |
|
|
Welcome, and good to see someone else about to encounter, (help us solve), the problems of the 442. Check out my archive for suspension mounting
problems if you decide to go with the book sizes. There are a few folk on here building 442's at the moment welcome to the club.
Good luck.
|
|
|
datz510
|
| posted on 25/1/06 at 02:54 PM |
|
|
Wow! Thanks for the warm welcome!
Last night, I was able to cut and get the rest of the frontend members tacked in place (except for the trans tunnel uprights.
Nope, no weather gear will be added, except for a cap to keep the sun off my noggin. 350+ days a year of blue sky and sunshine...
Avoneer, thanks for the info on the bones.. I'll pick up another stick of 11 gauge before I start them.
Once I get ahold of the book, I'll study the dimensions for the front bones and see what will need to be done. From what I've read, I
know the upper and lower 442 chassis dimensions have caused a lot of grief in that department.
Do most builders go with longer lower arms or build out the lower part of the chassis to allow the book arms to be used?
Again, thanks for the warm welcome! I'm sure you guys will be seeing a lot of me over the course of my build.
Hang on, we're goin for a ride!
1972 Datsun 510 (1600) w/ 200hp 3.0L V6
1995 Nissan Pathfinder rock crawler
|
|
|
Avoneer
|
| posted on 25/1/06 at 04:04 PM |
|
|
I'd measure the track width for the back of the car and make your bones to fit the normal chassis dimensions, but with the same track as your
rear axle.
Best is to do a scetch or tacked up effort and ask us all what we think when you get to that stage.
Pat...
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
|
|
|
zilspeed
|
| posted on 25/1/06 at 04:51 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Avoneer
I'd measure the track width for the back of the car and make your bones to fit the normal chassis dimensions, but with the same track as your
rear axle.
Best is to do a scetch or tacked up effort and ask us all what we think when you get to that stage.
Pat...
Which will be exactly my approach. 442 with De dion to full Sierra width. That means I will have long wishbones to keep to full Sierra track width. I
like the idea of long wishbones to minimise camber change as well...
|
|
|
big_wasa
|
| posted on 25/1/06 at 07:39 PM |
|
|
Nice work
You wont believe the things you will chop and change along the way so dont weld solid untill your sure...
|
|
|
WIMMERA
|
| posted on 25/1/06 at 11:02 PM |
|
|
Hi Datz
Thats a nice 1600, just wondering if you retained the standard rear axle or upgraded to something stronger. The Locost is looking good as well.
Wimmera
|
|
|
sean951
|
| posted on 25/1/06 at 11:33 PM |
|
|
very nice 510, i was going to build up a dime with a twin turbo chevy v6 but i started the project im on right now instead. im still in love with the
510s though, ill have one some day . nice work on the 442 also, good luck
|
|
|
datz510
|
| posted on 26/1/06 at 02:44 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by WIMMERA
Hi Datz
Thats a nice 1600, just wondering if you retained the standard rear axle or upgraded to something stronger. The Locost is looking good as well.
Wimmera
The 510 has the stock rear IRS w/ R160 differential. I am tempted to pull the R160 out to put it in the Locost and then drop an R180 or R200 in the
510, as I can almost hear the poor little R160 crying "mercy" when I give it the go pedal. The R160 would be better suited for the
Locost... but it all really depends what kind of differential I can pull out of the donor nissan 240sx.
Hang on, we're goin for a ride!
1972 Datsun 510 (1600) w/ 200hp 3.0L V6
1995 Nissan Pathfinder rock crawler
|
|
|
datz510
|
| posted on 26/1/06 at 02:48 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Nice work
You wont believe the things you will chop and change along the way so dont weld solid untill your sure...
Yep!! I've only been tack welding all the pieces so far.. I've already had to move a few parts due to my botched measuring, but finally
got it all back to where its supposed to be..
Hang on, we're goin for a ride!
1972 Datsun 510 (1600) w/ 200hp 3.0L V6
1995 Nissan Pathfinder rock crawler
|
|
|
datz510
|
| posted on 7/2/06 at 04:00 PM |
|
|
Just some update photos of my project 442...
I picked up most of a donor car last weekend. I am using a 1989 Nissan 240sx, which has a KA24DE 2.4L 4 cylinder engine producing approximately 140hp
(104kW). I will also be looking into a turbo setup once the car is completed to further improve performance. It is not uncommon to see 280-300hp
(208-223kW) from these engines when built.
The 240sx also uses a nice IRS setup with I believe an aluminum differential and has flanged rear unit bearing hubs, which will allow me to build my
own uprights.
Here is the IRS subframe with halfshafts tossed in to show approximately where they will go. Still needs some triangulation and need to make the
differential mounts, but its showing progress.. you can also see the flanged unit bearing hubs in this photo:
(You can also see my new Milwaukee chop saw... new projects are always a good excuse for new tools, as my father taught me)
Several views of the halfway triangulated chassis:
Last night, I started tacking in the trans tunnel lowers and so should have half of the tunnel done soon. Once I get the engine and tranny into
place, I can finish it.
A coworker will be donating a pair of Porsche 914 seats, which should fit nicely. I'll need to reupholster them, but I think they will work
really well for this car and will look similar to the seats used in the caterhams and westys.
[Edited on 7/2/06 by datz510]
Hang on, we're goin for a ride!
1972 Datsun 510 (1600) w/ 200hp 3.0L V6
1995 Nissan Pathfinder rock crawler
|
|
|
datz510
|
| posted on 19/4/06 at 05:45 PM |
|
|
Just figured I'd post up some update photos..
Less than 3 months after I welded the first peices of the chassis together, here is how she sits as of last night. Still have a tremendous amount of
work to do, but it seems a lot closer to sitting on its own now. Once the suspension is done, it'll be a real milestone for me. I'd
like to have this thing driving by the 6 month mark!
Got one of the front A arms done last night:
Almost looks like a car in this pic:
The new front A arm.. needs some finishing still, but its about 90% done right now.
Got the lower mounts tack welded on:
Another view:
The view from the driver's seat:
The "official" build thread for my car is here:
http://nissan4wheelers.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/748603133/m/68510553031/p/1
Hang on, we're goin for a ride!
1972 Datsun 510 (1600) w/ 200hp 3.0L V6
1995 Nissan Pathfinder rock crawler
|
|
|
DIY Si
|
| posted on 19/4/06 at 06:43 PM |
|
|
Looking good that. Going along much quicker than mine is. Are you adding any extra triangulation to the chassis? Might be wise if you do end up with
the blower fitted.
|
|
|
datz510
|
| posted on 19/4/06 at 06:57 PM |
|
|
Yep, I will be adding a bit more triangulation to the chassis. Especially in the rear for the IRS. as all of that is currently not triangulated at
all. Once I have an idea on where some of the components will be sitting, I can design the rest of the chassis triangulation around them.
Hang on, we're goin for a ride!
1972 Datsun 510 (1600) w/ 200hp 3.0L V6
1995 Nissan Pathfinder rock crawler
|
|
|
kb58
|
| posted on 19/4/06 at 07:57 PM |
|
|
What are those front uprights from?
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
|
|
|
datz510
|
| posted on 19/4/06 at 08:41 PM |
|
|
They are from a 1989 Nissan 240sx.
I'm still not sure whether they will be acceptable. The pre-set ackerman angle isnt right for a front steer application. Trying to figure out
if I can adjust ackerman angle via rack placement. If so, they might work ok. I can always cut and reweld the arms to correct the ackerman angle if
required.
*edit*.. looking online I found that if i move the rack back, it will increase the ackerman angle, so, by placing the rod end above the stock arm,
it'll set the stock arm to around zero ackerman, which I can then increase by moving the rack backwards.
[Edited on 19/4/06 by datz510]
Hang on, we're goin for a ride!
1972 Datsun 510 (1600) w/ 200hp 3.0L V6
1995 Nissan Pathfinder rock crawler
|
|
|
%20(WinCE).JPG)
