monck
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 posted on 28/9/11 at 06:06 PM |
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Zetec setup advise
Hi there, want advise what setup i should go with
I had twin 40's on a MJL ignition and 130 spec cams running my 1.8 (no idea what the engine put out) Im changing to a New crate 2.0 zetec
I need advise on my new setup , I don't want to spend 1000s ( if i wanted massive power i wouldn't have got a zetec but i was hoping to
get 170-180 hp )
I was thinking maybe selling my 40's for 45's or 50's and fitting some half good cams + setting up on the rolling road will this
achieve that sort of power ?
Throttle bodies just seem to expensive unless anyone on hear makes bike Tb setups i think its a no to tb's i dont have great knowledge of
electrics either !!
also has anyone used Cams from america they seem good prices £250 and offer lifetime warranty againsed manufacture defects (Or am i missing something
)
Ryan
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austin man
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| posted on 28/9/11 at 06:11 PM |
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with a decent set of cams and TB's yo may get around that mark. A stage 3 head lightened and balanced. race cams and a rolling road will get
200ish (figures base on a silvertop)
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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monck
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| posted on 28/9/11 at 06:13 PM |
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So with say i stay with twin 45 webers and cams ill be at what 160 ? 
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carlknight1982
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| posted on 28/9/11 at 06:30 PM |
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dont forget you need a well designed exhaust to help flow the gases too.
Logic will get you from a A to B
Imagination will take you everywhere.
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AndyW
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| posted on 28/9/11 at 07:04 PM |
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gbs inlet plenam, with an emerald ecu gave 166bhp on crate engine. Cheap as chips.
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austin man
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| posted on 28/9/11 at 07:26 PM |
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emmerald is about £400 for a mapping session you could convert the webbers to work as TB's and inject it I think you could get 160 on carbs
and megajolt, bike carbs offer more economy
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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skidmark
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| posted on 28/9/11 at 09:09 PM |
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My standard 2.0 Blacktop zetec with custom inlet plenum (similar to the GBS one), a GBS exhaust manifold and megasquirt was rolling roaded at 162bhp
(at only 6500rpm). Driveability on road is good too (or it was until somebody crashed into me!!!).
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monck
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| posted on 28/9/11 at 10:16 PM |
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Ok so IF i went (bike) tb's would they produce around 170 with cams ?? ... Bike tb's seem to be the cheapest way but what is the
disadvantages over likes of jenevvy style bodies...
I know the bike tbs arnt to dear and neither the manifold if you make one or have one made ... its just the ecu and that i don't understand am i
just making a mountain out or a mole hill or are they really that complicated going form webers to tb's ?
If i sold my webers how much very roughly would i have to spend on top to get a bike tb setup ?
Would tb's without cams be better than webers with cams?
sorry for all questions
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 29/9/11 at 01:13 PM |
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My original 2.0 Silvertop made a corrected 178 bhp at the flywheel on both Noble's and Vessey's rolling roads. The engine was totally
standard except for a pair of 45's (36mm chokes), a pair or Kent FZ2002 cams and a nice 4 into 1 exhaust (1 3/4 primaries, 2 1/4 main pipe).
I would expect a standard Blacktop to make a bit more since it has slightly bigger inlet valves but remember that whilst fitting hydraulic cams to a
Silvertop is a doddle fitting the mechanical cams to a Blacktop requires shims which is very time consuming.
My own car now has a totally standard Blacktop fitted with 45mm Jenveys and a MBE ECU. When I did some work with a data logger on both this engine and
its predecessor (a totally standard Silvertop on the same Jenveys, ECU and exhaust) the result showed the Blacktop was slightly quicker.
Unless you are really pushing on during a track day the standard engine is quick enough on the road, if anything the flexibility makes it quicker low
down.
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monck
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| posted on 29/9/11 at 04:24 PM |
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Hi Paul
your saying 178bhp with cams and 45s do you mean size of throttle bodies or are you talking webers ? ?
i have a good 4 into one exhaust on my kit car so that's not a problem ...
The reason im asking all this is i don't want to get in it and not feel a difference between this blacktop and my old 1.8 engine
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 29/9/11 at 05:43 PM |
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I said 45's with 36mm chokes, throttle bodies don't have chokes therefore I was referring to Webers.
If you replace a 1800 Silvertop with a 2 litre Blacktop and use all your old bits you will definitely notice a difference. The 1800 Silvertop came in
various flavours and none were as powerful as the 2 litre.
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monck
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| posted on 29/9/11 at 05:50 PM |
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Sorry i didn't click when i read it the first time 
178 hp seems very good !!
Did you have verniers with the cams?
Any idea the best place for price on those cams ?
Sorry about all the questions !
cheers
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 29/9/11 at 06:01 PM |
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Those cams are no good with a Blacktop, they are hydraulic profiles, you need profiles for solid lifters with a Blacktop and as I said above fitting
is tiresome.
I did not have verniers. When I fitted the cams as per the suppliers suggestion I used the slots as per Fords standard installation, gave 178
corrected BHP at the flywheel. Later I timed them in as per Kents instructions, Ford cam wheels are not dowled thus verniers are not strictly
necessary but they make the job way easier, took me most of the day to get it right, with verniers would have taken an hour. Took it back to the RR
and it gave 178 corrected BHP at the flywheel but it had way more midrange power which was great but it was nowhere near as good or smooth low down, a
right pig in town to be honest. When I sprinted it the times were no different.
If you want some advice run it as standard to begin with and upgrade if you feel the need. I hav'nt yet.
Paul
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 29/9/11 at 06:50 PM |
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Hi, see link, stock engine 2.0L
http://baileyperformance.co.uk/?p=184
Good look with your project.
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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monck
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| posted on 26/10/11 at 05:26 PM |
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Hi again everyone , after reading and asking alot i have a better understanding now of power a zetec should give
I need your opinion !!!! Here's my thing
My 1.8 had 2ltr cams lightened flywheel on 40 webers and to be honest i wasn't blown away i expected MORE !!
This 2.0 although its new its still only going to give around 160 on throttle bodies
I don't want to get it set up mapped ect and take it out next year and be disappointed by its performance and i have a feeling i might ??
I want something that will scare me abit 
I don't want to turbo , and cams are around £400 and ported head around £750 from places i have asked alot of money for the gains ?
Are these prices right ? what is the best value for money to get more hp?
My opinion always has bin a bigger engine or more powerful one is always cheapest route ? should i consider a u-turn and go Duratec ?
Or should i just shut up and carry on with zetec ?
Cheers
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 26/10/11 at 06:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by monck
Hi again everyone , after reading and asking alot i have a better understanding now of power a zetec should give
I need your opinion !!!! Here's my thing
My 1.8 had 2ltr cams lightened flywheel on 40 webers and to be honest i wasn't blown away i expected MORE !!
This 2.0 although its new its still only going to give around 160 on throttle bodies
I don't want to get it set up mapped ect and take it out next year and be disappointed by its performance and i have a feeling i might ??
I want something that will scare me abit
I don't want to turbo , and cams are around £400 and ported head around £750 from places i have asked alot of money for the gains ?
Are these prices right ? what is the best value for money to get more hp?
My opinion always has bin a bigger engine or more powerful one is always cheapest route ? should i consider a u-turn and go Duratec ?
why bother with an 1.8L when a 2.0L is available at less than £200?
Use a stock 2.0L black top on EFI with bike or jenveys and leave it at that, cams are not worth the money for the power you gain (less than 20bhp for
fast road)
Dont bother with carbs, they are a thing of the past!
Or should i just shut up and carry on with zetec ?
Cheers
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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monck
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| posted on 26/10/11 at 06:15 PM |
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Im not thinking of a 1.8 dont worry i think i explained it wrong or you read it wrong not sure .....
Sorry if it was the way i wrote it !! But basically i have removed a 1.8 on twin 40's but was never that impressed with performance to other
cars i had driven it didn't feel as quick as i expected it to be when i bought it
I bought a 2.0 blacktop new and plan to use gsxr tb's on megasquirt ! Forgetting Hp figures i must be right in thinking its not going to be a
huge amount quicker ?
I want something that feels a fair bit quicker than before and im not sure a stock 2ltr will achieve this ?
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 26/10/11 at 06:37 PM |
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Oh sorry! I must learn to read!!
A good 2.0L on bike TBs on MS (preferably MS2) will make 160-170BHP and about the same torque, will feel quick in a light car.
A good 1.8L (same as above) will make 140BHP.
I would suggest (after driving several zetec powered 7 type cars) 170BHP is quick enough, 0-60 been around 5 seconds.
I have done cars with tuned V8's and they are not much quicker, getting the power to the road starts to become a problem much after 200bhp.
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 06:47 AM |
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If 170 bhp isn't enough for you sell the car and buy a superbike.
Paul
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DixieTheKid
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 07:08 AM |
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Go for a set of Kent fast road cams think thier 2002's, i would suggest while the cams are out having the head polished if you want the 180bhp.
You get close without any head work, but defo will be the cams.
Try to run with TB's if you can, failing that look out for an ST170 manifold and a set of bike carbs.
COS IT'S Worth IT
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 07:12 AM |
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I posted above that Kent FZ 2002's are no good in a Blacktop, they are Silvertop hydraulic profiles and a Blacktop uses solid lifters.
Bailey performance reply is total sense, try the car before you spend any more money, think you will be very satisfied.
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DixieTheKid
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 08:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
I posted above that Kent FZ 2002's are no good in a Blacktop, they are Silvertop hydraulic profiles and a Blacktop uses solid lifters.
Bailey performance reply is total sense, try the car before you spend any more money, think you will be very satisfied.
I think your find that just the ST170 had solid lifters, and the Zetec E (black top) had machinical lifters do you know the difference?. Paul do you
normally talk to people like sh*t?
COS IT'S Worth IT
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lotusmadandy
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 09:18 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DixieTheKid
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
I posted above that Kent FZ 2002's are no good in a Blacktop, they are Silvertop hydraulic profiles and a Blacktop uses solid lifters.
Bailey performance reply is total sense, try the car before you spend any more money, think you will be very satisfied.
I think your find that just the ST170 had solid lifters, and the Zetec E (black top) had machinical lifters do you know the difference?. Paul do you
normally talk to people like sh*t?
zetec e (black top) has solid lifters.
Andy
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Jenko
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 11:06 AM |
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I've not read through the entire thread but.....
First off, everyone wants a 'cheap power upgrade'...Reality is of course that this does not exist. What ever happens will cost money.
So with a standard 2.0ltr engine with either TB's or carbs you will see around 160bhp. Changing cams is great, but to release the full potential
of longer duration and higher lift cams a head port would help.....with sensible cams and a head port you would expect around the 180bhp mark.
Going to fuel injection will not mean that you get more power, just more drivability, possibly torque lower down the rev range, and considerably
better fuel consumption...but well worth thinking about as you engine is designed for this (i.e. you have the sensors required. Many of us
'locost' have done this using motorbike TB's and MegaSquirt which will do the same job as jenveys and omex, all be it a bit more of
a job to install.
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 11:38 AM |
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The Zetec E Silvertop uses Hydraulic Lifters (also called tappets). The ST170 engine and Zetec E Blacktop are basically the same engines but
the ST170 has a VVC mechanism and more power, it also has certain internal differences to make it slightly stronger, both these engines use
Mechanical or Solid lifters, they are the same thing, different people refer to them by different names.
Fitting new Hydraulic cams is a doddle, takes a couple of hours but you must fit new hydraulic lifters, if you don't odds are that you will
bugger the cam before you get on the road. Fitting new mechanical or solid cams is a much lengthier process since you need to shim up each follower to
the correct clearance which also means having a good stock of shims. Some cam manufacturers claim to manufacture their cams to the manufacturers base
circle dimensions but beacuse of manufacturing tolerences you are going to be very lucky if all the clearances are within the recommended figures.
DixieTheKid. Thanks for your really constructive remark, I must remember never to offer you advice. I was simply trying to stop Monck buying the wrong
cams for his engine, fitting the FZ2002's would have resulted in several hundred pounds worth of scrap components. Have a nice day.
Paul
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