iiyama
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| posted on 5/9/06 at 09:31 PM |
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well I have seen some dry sump systems with hoses held on by hose clamps. The TTS one for a start. However I was looking at this......
http://s114.photobucket.com/albums/n251/vm1451/?action=view¤t=image416.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1
Much safer, (imo), aeroquip fittings.
[Edited on 6/9/06 by iiyama]
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Hellfire
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| posted on 5/9/06 at 09:46 PM |
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If your pockets are deep enough, go for it.......
Phil
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twybrow
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| posted on 8/9/06 at 11:36 AM |
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I spoke to my neighbour yesterday, who own a garage specialising in bikes and bike engines - he sourced a full crashed Busa for £800! And if there are
more going, i am at the top of the list! Apparently there was not another useable part on the bike (all forks, wheels etc were trashed) but still,
that is BLOODY cheap!
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twybrow
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| posted on 8/9/06 at 11:36 AM |
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I spoke to my neighbour yesterday, who owns a garage specialising in bikes and bike engines - he sourced a full crashed Busa for £800! And if there
are more going, i am at the top of the list! Apparently there was not another useable part on the bike (all forks, wheels etc were trashed) but still,
that is BLOODY cheap!
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RallyHarry
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| posted on 8/9/06 at 12:30 PM |
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But if I use it in a (R1) mini etc, would it still "need" drysumping, or would it be close enough to a bike ( that leans in the
corners)
Cheers
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G.Man
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| posted on 8/9/06 at 12:34 PM |
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you could possibly get away with a baffle sump or sump with mobile pickup in straight ahead configuration...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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iiyama
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| posted on 10/9/06 at 04:32 PM |
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The problem with that sump is that it dosent clear the Dax chassis.
Ill think Ill dry sump it. Peice of mind for future upgrades and a small power increase to boot.
If its broke, fix it. If it aint broke, take it apart and find out how it works!
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 10/9/06 at 04:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iiyama
well I have seen some dry sump systems with hoses held on by hose clamps. The TTS one for a start.
I assume it was this picture of the TTS sump you were looking at?
If so, although I agree that Aeroquips are a far better connection method in any circumstance, aren't those two hoses the scavenge hoses which
are pulling a vacuum if anything, not under pressure so are very unlikely to come off even if they didnt have any clips at all?
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iiyama
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| posted on 10/9/06 at 04:47 PM |
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Yes indeedy!
Have to bow to your far superior knowledge on how they work Chris. My learning curve is still pretty near vertical.
And just to confirm this......
Arnt those 2 pipes connected to the oil pump? So surely there will be some pressure in there?
[Edited on 10/9/06 by iiyama]
If its broke, fix it. If it aint broke, take it apart and find out how it works!
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 10/9/06 at 05:27 PM |
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LOL, I don't know a great deal bout dry sumps either, mostly only from my mate's experience with his busa sump.
That bit you see there is an oil pump yep, but I dont think its pressurised. I think all that pump does is scavenge oil, ie just sucking oil out of
the sump into the tank.
From the tank the oil is then fed into the original bike's oil pump which creates the pressure stage. You can add an additional stage to the
external pump you see there (making it a 3 stage pump) which does the pressure stage and so removes the bike's own pump from the system, but I
don't think this one has that by the looks of it.
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iiyama
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| posted on 10/9/06 at 05:36 PM |
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So if that pump just scavenges oil back to the sump tank, and the internal pump creates pressure within the engine, how does the oil get from the sump
tank into the engine in the first place?? Surely dosent rely in gravity as this would lead to the problem Im trying to avoid, ie surge....or have I
got the wrong end of the stick??
What system is your mate using? And why?
If its broke, fix it. If it aint broke, take it apart and find out how it works!
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 10/9/06 at 05:40 PM |
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The internal bike pump sucks oil into its inlet side, the same as it would suck oil up the pickup in a wet sump system. So rather than sucking oil
from the sump, it sucks it from the dry sump tank, but because the tank can hold more oil than the engine can in a wet sump system, and its tall and
narrow so holds a good head of oil at all times, you should never get to a point where the tank is anywhere near low enough to allow air down the
pickup.
Thats the theory anyway 
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 10/9/06 at 05:53 PM |
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I think Bazzer is using a mix n match system, it was originally supplied with his Westfield which uses a Pace sump, but he's had modified to add
the pressure stage.
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iiyama
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| posted on 10/9/06 at 06:03 PM |
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ok.....think I understand that. So I guess then oil returns to the tank through the oil cooler?
If its broke, fix it. If it aint broke, take it apart and find out how it works!
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 10/9/06 at 06:08 PM |
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Nope, the oil returns to the tank via the scavenge pump
ie
Tank > pressure stage pump > round engine / cooler > drain to sump > scavenge pump sucks it up > back to tank
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G.Man
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| posted on 10/9/06 at 06:29 PM |
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Scavenge pump sends oil via the oil cooler (usually) to the tank..
If you have a stage 2 pace kit, (TTS for Hayabusa) then the pump is also the pressure pump and you have to manually set the pressure to keep it within
tolerance so is slightly more complex than the stage 1 kit which is pure scavenge...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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iiyama
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| posted on 10/9/06 at 06:31 PM |
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Ah! So those pipes are under pressure then??
If its broke, fix it. If it aint broke, take it apart and find out how it works!
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 10/9/06 at 06:38 PM |
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I thought that its 2 stage because there are two scavenge circuits (ie one either side of the sump to pick up oil from two different areas), thats
certainly the case with my mate's setup. If it was one of each though then yes one would be under pressure, not the other.
I also wasnt aware that the scavenge side (which has a lot of air in it) pumps through the oil cooler, I wouldnt think that would be the most
efficient way of cooling the oil is it?
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iiyama
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| posted on 10/9/06 at 06:49 PM |
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pass........
wouldnt have thought so....
If its broke, fix it. If it aint broke, take it apart and find out how it works!
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 10/9/06 at 07:48 PM |
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I checked with my mate Bazzer how his is rigged up, and his cooler is in the pressure stage as I described but you can also do it as G Man mentioned.
He said there's pros and cons of both, if its in the pressure stage then cooling is slightly more efficient but you can get a slight pressure
drop across the circuit so not ideal if you want to maximise pressure from your pump. If you have an external pressure stage though, you can control
pressure more easily so possibly less of a concern.
Putting the cooler in the scavenge you obviously dont have this pressure drop, but cooling isnt quite as efficient because of aeriation, so I guess
the ideal positioning of it depends on whether pressure or cooling is your biggest concern.
I also mentioned the TTS system and according to him it is a 2 stage scavenge using the bikes pump for pressure, so neither of those hoses would be
under pressure.
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iiyama
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| posted on 10/9/06 at 07:58 PM |
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ok bud, very informative. Be interesting to know if the Big CC one is the same. It is definatly cheaper, although looks to be better made, also
includes the water pump in the price.
If its broke, fix it. If it aint broke, take it apart and find out how it works!
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