stevebubs
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| posted on 18/10/06 at 04:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ch1ll1
at least we still make london taxis !
Actually - they're also about to start making them under license in China.
Wonder how long it will be before they stop making them here....
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macspeedy
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| posted on 18/10/06 at 04:31 PM |
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south park esk
THEY TOOK R JOBS
I have had it with the common market, for example the spanish, nice people and all that, they can 'fish out' our waters for nothing they
are suposedly poor, they get huge funding from the eu! they come over here and take over our companies, i know this.. they build huge enigineering
projects with european funding. Then they allow all these imigrants into our country, why we already have the fourth or fifth highest population
density in the world!
They took our jobs !!!!!!!
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StevieB
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| posted on 18/10/06 at 05:14 PM |
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But getting back to the point - it's a great shame that TVR are moving away, but not suprise.
When I was at 6th Form, we got a trip round the factory (as it was just down the road) and visited every department.
What I saw was a bunch of entusiastuic people making fast cars in a very large, but poor state, hanger(s).
It had the appearance of something that could be achieved if the poeple of this forum found a big shed and knocked a few cars together.
It certainly took a bit of the stigma away from the cars, and didn't look to be as efficient as it could have been. Now that they have a new
owner, more funding and a drive on quality, the plant was always going to move - and it was always going to move abroad because it's cheaper.
We can all moan about things moving oversees etc. etc all we want. The simple fact is, if it was my company, and I'd tried everything and still
failed to get results, I'd have done the same thing. After all, it's not a hobby, it's a business, and that requires cold and
calculated decisions.
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 18/10/06 at 05:22 PM |
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quote:
They took our jobs !!!!!!!
I disagree. We cannot fill enough posts at times with local labour (we've tried and they are either not interested or less than f*cking
useless). These people are willing to relocate, with a young familly sometimes, from an area 1000kms away. It's all about money they can earn in
1 week here what it takes 1 month to earn at home. While british people find it less lucrative to relocate (property prices etc etc).
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Jumpy Guy
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| posted on 18/10/06 at 07:49 PM |
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where do i get my views on global manufacturing?
I work for a German company. I work 30% of the year in Dubai.
in my last job, i worked for Philips, one of the worlds largest multinationals. I moved two scottish production lines to Polish factories. Spent six
months in Pila and Pabenitsa (sorry for the spelling ;-) )
I lived in China for extensive period (2 years) , Taiwan for a year, Malaysia for six months.
But you're correct, I probably have no idea about what happens in the world....
Immigration in itself doesnt affect the 'host' nation unless the lazy b*stards in the host nation let it happen.
Dubai has one of the most ferocious economies on the planet. Only 20% of residents in Dubai are UAE nationals. The rest are immigrant workers (UK,
Poland, India)
In all the time I've been in Dubai, I have never had any hassle as an immigrant taking jobs...
Germany is the largest exporter in the world. It may not have the best labour market at the moment, but it punches way above its weight .The latest
OECD report reckons china will catch up in 6 years or so....
But, as someone else said- my point is not solely about cheap labour rates. Its very obvious that is a large part of it. My original point is that the
only way to compete with cheap foreign labour rates is to alter the british view on labour-
i.e. invest in automation, invest in multiskill training, get UK nationals actually working.
The picture above sums it up to me- ten UK 'professionals' looking down a hole and moaning about the immigrants, while the immigrant does
the actual work.
[Edited on 18/10/06 by Jumpy Guy]
[Edited on 18/10/06 by Jumpy Guy]
[Edited on 18/10/06 by Jumpy Guy]
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Hellfire
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| posted on 18/10/06 at 08:26 PM |
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Jumpy - I conceed to your knowledge of foreign companies. However, you decline from offering up the role you played in those companies. I work for one
of the largest automotive suppliers in the world - in manufacturing, so I see first hand what is happening to our economy as a result, not that I know
anything at all, but...
The reason why UK business does not invest in new machinery is purely because (mostly foreign) financial intitutions cannot and will not resource a
failing UK economy and risk the losses resulting from a failing company.
Toyota - for instance doesn't even use UK workforce for the brand new extension and facility they are currently building. They employ a Japanese
company to do that.... why? You tell me...
For far too long the UK manufacturing has sat on its hands and rested on the fact that we were once the most successful and innovative manufacturing
base in the world. Trouble is, we sat on our hands for far too long whilst our sompetitors caught up and susequently overtook us at what we do best.
Our Government does little to give us a competitive edge as almost all of Europe and Asia do in the way of subsidies etc.
It's sad about TVR, but inevitable. As a private company trying to make a large profit for the greedy (?) owners... I rest my case. (It's
heavy now!) 
Steve
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Jumpy Guy
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| posted on 18/10/06 at 09:50 PM |
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Hellfire,
we're kinda saying the same thing here!!
you're right; we have 'sat on our hands'
that was my original point; its our fault, not immigrant workers....
as for what i do -Design Engineer- i design industrial automation- robot cells, CNC machines, data log and telemetry....
if you have any crank grinding machines sold by Landis Lunde, then we designed em...
[Edited on 18/10/06 by Jumpy Guy]
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smart51
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| posted on 19/10/06 at 07:45 AM |
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We in Britain have sold off all our companies. In the modern age, "thats what we do". The American, Japanese, Chinese etc owners of once
british companies use their british plants almost as contractors - to be disposed of when no longer needed. We can hardly complain what happens in
foreign owned factories - we sold them and took the cash years ago. They're not our factories to whinge about, except that we work in them.
I too work for a large multinational company. We have plants in numerous countries. It is the eastern europeans who are getting all the new work.
When I was in Detroit last, they were really put out as a factory a week is closing there.
We're all doomed unless we can thing of a solution. 10 years from now, China and other eastern countries will take over the manufacturing world
and the economic world will soon follow. We'll find that the world changes quite a bit then.
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spaximus
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| posted on 19/10/06 at 08:16 AM |
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The thing is we can still do all the things we used to do, however the costs kill british business. Speaking in genral now , we have a workforce who
want much more for much less work than ever before, we have unions who cannot see past the end of their nose so push for unacheivable aims. An example
of that is the Peugoet factory, the company says it is closing the union calls for a strike. So the company could have then sacked them all without
redundancy, instead of being proactive with the company like the nissan plant. Dyson is a great example, he built a factory in Malmesbury which is
excellant, he wanted to hugly extend it, the council refused permission so given a choice of building a new factory from scratch here or in the far
east the far east won. Now to his credit he still kept the old one going as well, but it is an example of a council run by halfwits not working with
the towns biggest employer to secure extra jobs. Bristol City is trying to buy the M32 to turn into a bus lane and single road complete with
congestion charging, several finacial institutions have already moved over the Bridge to wales where they have no such intentions. These are the type
of crackpot ideas that have led to British business going abroad in their droves. Lucas, evryone knows was as British as John Bull now nothing Lucas
is made here at all. And the list goes on. When we only have service industries then we will have to rely on the city type to generate money buying
and selling forgien companies to keep all the chavs in benefit.
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Syd Bridge
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| posted on 19/10/06 at 08:40 AM |
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Didn't the Thatcher government decree that the UK would become a 'service industry' nation?
Then set about systematically to rip the heart out of, and dismantle all of the industries associated with manufacturing.
First coal mining, then steel, shipbuilding, heavy industry, light industry.........
But for the little man with a lathe and a few tools in his garage or shed, there would be nothing made in this country of any significance.
But who was the 'expert' who advised Thatchers mob to do this? Find him and his committee and string 'em up by the proverbials, if
you find they have any.
Same thing happened in Aus. Now they have woken up to the stupidity, and are trying to reverse the situation. That's why UK tradesmen with
manufacturing trades are being actively recruited into Aus.
And the 'multiculturalism' has been tossed out as well.
Time for the 'Mother Country' to take some lessons from the offspring!
Cheers,
Syd
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Ian Pearson
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| posted on 19/10/06 at 09:08 AM |
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I couldn’t agree more Syd. Thatcherism resulted in all of our heavy industry being closed down. Subsidies that were available from the EU to support
these industries. I have always felt that it is better to have a subsidised workforce than an unemployed one. I believe (a bit shaky here!) that we
now import subsidised German coal??
Perhaps keeping all those industries would’ve given them time to modernise, who knows?
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NS Dev
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| posted on 19/10/06 at 09:18 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jumpy Guy
eh? before the Daily Mail brigade get their knickers in a twist, TVR going away is nowt to do with immigration
its to do with inefficient british manufacturinig techniques, companies run on victorian values, lack of investment in new technology
but more importantly - not enough people buying the cars.
that simple.
how many people here own a tvr?
Eh up Jumpy! Have to say, normally we seem to agree on stuff, but here I disagree slightly.
Having also worked in fairly "core" industries (steel and automotive) for a good while now, I don't see that the companies I worked
for could be much more efficient.
Sure there were things that could be improved, don't I know it as I am a CI Engineer!!!!
However, the phrase "you can't polish a turd" just always came to mind.
When I was working on scrap reduction at Timken Alloy Steel Europe Ltd (formerly Desford Tubes, part of TI) we calculated that even if we had 100%
transformation of steel bar to tube, with no scrap anywhere in the plant, we still could not get our marginal COSTS below what eastern european plants
were SELLING AT!!!!!!!
Like banging your head against a brick wall.
Now forget TVR, Timken has just pulled out, closing the only remaining seamless tube piercing mill left in the UK, now seamless tube is 100% imported
at some stage in its processing (some is drawn ect in the UK but none is now pierced here)
400 jobs are going in Desford (nr leicester) in the next 6 months.
Timken closed its bearing plant in Duston, Northampton, 5 years ago, a plant which employed 1500....................
I am fed up with British Manufacturing, but I love engineering, its a shite situation. There are a LOT of very efficient plants in the UK, the media
focus on a few very inneficient ones, Rover being a notable one.
Look at Toyota and Nissan UK.
Forget "inefficient british manufacturing" these two plants have repeatedly been crowned the two most efficient car plants in the
WORLD!!!! (even beating their parent plants in Japan)
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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jono_misfit
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| posted on 19/10/06 at 09:51 AM |
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Unfortunately the UK is entirely money driven in all aspects of life.
I worked for a number of years in construction where the moto seems to be "we dont care if its built like crap as long as its cheap". And
i think this applies to pretty much everything.
Where i can i by british, and if you look hard you find some excelent products etc, but its always at a premium.
The world revolves around money and if relocating means increased ££ then sooner or later it'll happen.
Its sad to see TVR go, i think they're amazing cars, however the 3 people ive know that have had one (and thats the operative word) says its
hard to justify keeping them when their so expensive and so prone to failure. Where you can get something german that rarely breaks for a similar
price...
I think the company needed a complete re-vamp. Has the order rate decreased since the ownership changed? Who is / was the biggest market for TVR?
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Alez
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| posted on 20/10/06 at 01:03 PM |
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quote:
They'd have sold more cars if you couldn't go and get a Porsche/Merc/BMW for the same money, silimar performance, vastly more
civilised (Booooooooooo! - I like the rawness of TVR's) and far better built.
TVRs have tube chassis, which is why Porsche/Merc/BMW cars are about a 50% heavier. We are talking about sports cars (even if they have leather trim,
a stereo and things) and that is important, too. I don't think that the only "plus" of a TVR, compared to those, is its looks.
Actually, I'd love to have a TVR and the others are not particularly appealing to me, to be honest.
Cheers,
Alex
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